Cataclysm 4.3.x Raid Mechanics - Page 11

sinnaa · 12/14/11, 2:56 PM

More on the feint: I was watching again, and the reason i questioned it for a second is the feint buff fell right before he stomped and I was spamming it as he stomped. The buff was gained RIGHT as he stomped and was up right as the stomp happened, reducing the damage. Original comment about feint is accurate. I was sub spec for the fight though, so it may be sub thing. I have not tested it in other specs. The sub damage reduction and feint cause it to hit for between 60-70k for me.

Additionally, you should ensure that you are right on the bosses ass, and that everyone else is behind you. One way to easily accomplish this is to mark yourself and ensure that you are the closest to the boss/tank and move closer if someone pushes up on you.

konsherps · 12/14/11, 7:11 PM

We ran into trouble with HM morchok 10 last night. We run 2 rogues in our 10 man and so last week all we needed was 1 rogue and 1 tank on each boss. When it was possible an extra person or two would soak the damage but this was only when crystals weren't problematic. As long as we feinted there was no issue but last night I took a 250k hit and the tank took a 330k hit on the first stomp. As soon as a third person was introduced it became a non issue. This was not like last week. It seemed like others were having troubles with feint as well.

Here is one sample from our logs from two different attempts with only two people on each boss.

[14:02:27.739] Vanderlamp gains Feint from Vanderlamp
[14:02:27.739] Vanderlamp casts Feint on Kohcrom
[14:02:28.218] Kohcrom Stomp Killswitche 223392 (O: 107797)
[14:02:28.234] Kohcrom Stomp Vanderlamp 157675 (O: 113237)

[14:07:25.858] Aeath gains Feint from Aeath
[14:07:25.858] Aeath casts Feint on Morchok
[14:07:26.872] Akalia's Earth Shield fades from Resigned
[14:07:26.872] Resigned's Shield Block fades from Resigned <----
[14:07:26.872] Morchok Stomp Resigned 207814 (O: 100964, A: 19874)
[[14:07:26.882] Morchok Stomp Aeath 154832 (O: 81635, A: 34626)

Here is the first stomp again but from our first kill last week.

[16:44:23.648] Aeath gains Feint from Aeath
[16:44:23.648] Aeath casts Feint on Morchok
[16:44:23.952] Morchok Stomp Resigned 87037 (A: 32473)
[16:44:23.952] Morchok Stomp Aeath 66197 (A: 32473)
[16:44:23.952] Aeath afflicted by Stomp from Morchok

[16:44:41.291] Vanderlamp gains Feint from Vanderlamp
[16:44:41.291] Vanderlamp casts Feint on Kohcrom
[16:44:41.994] Kohcrom Stomp Killswitche 50536 (A: 9915)
[16:44:41.994] Kohcrom Stomp Vanderlamp 98615
[16:44:41.994] Vanderlamp afflicted by Stomp from Kohcrom
[16:44:41.994] Killswitche afflicted by Stomp from Kohcrom

EastonS · 12/14/11, 10:03 PM

Could it be that one of your ranged players was further than 25 yards out and therefore did not absorb their portion of the damage?

konsherps · 12/15/11, 1:55 AM

Well like I said last week we were able to do it with only a rogue and a tank. This week we weren't.

Dragel · 12/15/11, 3:38 AM

If you soak the stomp with feint and two people only the dmg works out to be 187,5k (750000 total dmg) before absorbs/mitigation what not. So, yes you might survive it with only two. There must have been other people soaking in your first kill.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

atroxes · 12/15/11, 3:48 AM

Originally Posted by konsherps

Well like I said last week we were able to do it with only a rogue and a tank. This week we weren't.

It's really hard to discuss your experience without knowing exactly what Buffs you had going at the time Stomp happened in each case. It seems really strange that you have been able to manage Stomp with only two people at all.

Introducing a 3rd player make all the difference as I understand the mechanic. Then you'd have a situation where you and the tank each receive 2/5 (300k) of the damage and the 3rd person receives 1/5 (150k) before mitigiation and Feint, so this should be no problem to survive every time.

I think you should check your log and search for if anyone else helped you mitigate some of those low-damage Stomps you received. The obvious answer is that more people split the damage.

EastonS · 12/15/11, 4:10 AM

Stomp
1.5 sec cast
Splits 2000000 damage between all targets within 25 yards. The two targets closest to Morchok take a double portion of the damage.

I am saying you took your double portion as normal, but your ranged camp had run too far away, or your tank didn't move the boss near to the crystal, and so the stomp was not fully absorbed as it should have been.

Sarvius · 12/15/11, 4:17 AM

You cannot 2-soak the stomp without anyone else being hit. A sub rogue with enveloping shadows may survive, but there are no tanks that can consistently mitigate 80% aoe damage - there are barely tanks that can reduce a single stomp by 80%. Not to mention melee swings. If you were succeeding before, it was either because of a bug or because your ranged were also soaking despite not being very close to the boss. Easton is probably correct.

konsherps · 12/15/11, 5:01 AM

I don't know but i was looking through last weeks logs and I didn't see anyone hit on the one after we both separated.

Here is the log from our kill. My side had 2 paladins a hunter me and brask the mage.

Here is from our kill last week with damage taken from stomp
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
here is from our kill this week
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

there is a resounding difference in damage taken. So last week for some reason we could 2 soak the stomp.
I know that this week we were unable to use the same strat and it shows in the logs how many people soaked stomps.

Sarvius · 12/15/11, 5:55 AM

There seem to have been a significant number of bugs that got worked out after 4.3 launch, so it's entirely possible this was one of them. I know that when we first began testing deathwing a few days into the patch, the damage seemed extraordinary and completely impossible to survive even from the first platform, and moreso on the second. I viewed my combat logs many times after dying and found that there were two identical entries for every corrupted blood tick. We came back the next day and it was night and day - half the damage meant it was easy to survive. There was never a patchnote about this bug.

konsherps · 12/15/11, 6:08 AM

Originally Posted by Sarvius

There seem to have been a significant number of bugs that got worked out after 4.3 launch, so it's entirely possible this was one of them. I know that when we first began testing deathwing a few days into the patch, the damage seemed extraordinary and completely impossible to survive even from the first platform, and moreso on the second. I viewed my combat logs many times after dying and found that there were two identical entries for every corrupted blood tick. We came back the next day and it was night and day - half the damage meant it was easy to survive. There was never a patchnote about this bug.

Yeah we had a similar bug on DW Friday after the release. We received double ticks of corruped blood.

Velgore · 12/15/11, 11:38 AM

My guild's re-kill of Morchok HC 25 last night worked as intended.
I was sub spec (old V&T spec) and took the double damage as expected. However, I missed a few feints due to latency/GCDs but took the damage. It lowered me to ~5%hp (max hp is 153k ish)
This was my first kill and 2nd attempt of the night due to latency last week forcing me to sit out, where 2 other rogues were successful with the same tactic.
My advice would be to have the Tank marked, stand on top of him/her and feint when you see the cast bar. All other raiders to be in range (once the groups have been evenly seperated) and for them to take the other shared damage, then they would move to the crystal before it explodes.
My damage was pretty poor, however being able to sit in the black blood with recoup, feint and cloak available.... more than made up for the damage loss. More practice and an improved spec in sub, and you could easily find yourself on top of damage done!

jsz · 12/15/11, 11:44 AM

I kept my dps at a good level by moving behind the boss to do my damage, then when the DBM timer for our stomp was less than 1.5 I would run through the boss, Feint, and stack on the tank. Its not the best tactic of you play with high latency but it's better than stabbing from in front of the boss all night.

Chult86 · 12/15/11, 12:41 PM

When I tested it with Blood Legion on the PTR, the GM told us the double stomp damage happened to the tank and the person closest to the tank, despite what the dungeon journal said. I haven't seen anything in our raids to support the fact that that has changed.

Whistles · 12/15/11, 9:34 PM

Originally Posted by konsherps

Well like I said last week we were able to do it with only a rogue and a tank. This week we weren't.

Last week we got our H Morchok 10 kill with ONLY the tank soaking. If nobody else was in range he was only taking 80k hits. This week it was working as expected and we had to have ranged in with the tank/soaker. Definitely a bug that got fixed in the last week.