Cataclysm 4.3.x Raid Mechanics - Page 14

sp00n · 01/02/12, 8:14 AM

a) The number of Spellweaving procs is directly linked to your kill order. If you leave Kalecgos up for the entire fight, of course you're going to see more of them.
b) World of Logs cannot yet differentiate between LFR and normal 25 man for Madness of Deathwing. So results there may very well be skewed.
It also doesn't seem to split heroic apart yet, at least the Vodka logs seem to be heroic ones (with ~700 procs of Spellweaving).

We should wait until WoL has integrated that HP based LFR detection system they're currently working on before we can draw any conclusions from the logs.

And that being said, I myself had 93/103/96 procs in our last 3 kills as Assassination and using FoK.

Stylinonem · 01/03/12, 10:23 AM

I was going to post a similar question regarding Spellweave procs on Madness. I looked over two particular logs and found something interesting. I procced Spellweave twice as often using the stage 1 legendaries as opposed to No'Kaled (403) + Vengeance even though the fight length and the number of poison procs was pretty much identical.

Fight 1				Fight 2
Length: 12:15			Length: 11:58
IP Procs: 718			IP Procs: 719
DP Procs: 230			DP Procs: 223
Spellweave: 129			Spellweave: 64

Could this simply be a byproduct of RNG or could there be something to using a faster mainhand regardless of poison procs? I was under the impression that Spellweave only procs off of spells (poisons for us rogues). Could Spellweave, in fact, proc off of auto-attacks and Blade Flurry hits?

On a similar note, have any of you rogues played around with using different poisons on Madness to both increase overall poison damage and Spellweave procs?

sp00n · 01/03/12, 12:43 PM

Well, Spellweave is triggered by Kalecgos' presence Spellweaver, which states it can proc from both attacks and spells.

Additionally the Dungeon Journal entry for Spellweave states that it only damages enemies within 6 yards that are not your current target.
I'm not so sure on either restriction though. I don't know about the exclusively other mobs part, but I regularly see my Spellweave fly off to other platforms. We're doing 3-1-2-4, and by passing over the second plattform, I get a few attacks on it which seem then to trigger the Spellweave later on.

Maybe the 6y limitation really only matters when you first attack a target, and doesn't later on (because it's already on your "eligible targets" list or whatever). If that's the case you could cheat more procs by bunny hopping on all platforms and attacking each tentakle there, before returning to your original target and continuing the fight as normal. Maybe something to test in the next LFR raid.

Armanewb · 01/03/12, 12:52 PM

Also worthy to note is that it seems, from server scripts, to be a flat 35% chance to trigger Spellweaving. Thus the faster MH is going to trigger more Spellweaving procs.

Stylinonem · 01/03/12, 4:49 PM

Ah, helps to read tooltips. Don't know why I assumed it only procced from spells. I'm going to play around on the LFR this week and test to see if the Stage 1s overtake No'Kaled on Madness. Getting back to my other question: are most of you guys running the traditional IP on MH / DP on OH setup on Madness, for combat that is?

Sarvius · 01/03/12, 5:12 PM

Yes. There are target swaps, but they're not that frequent. Only when you have to switch to blistering tentacles do you really start to dump bandit's guile and potentially dp. Nor is burst ever really of any particular import.

Dronus86 · 01/04/12, 12:37 PM

It's of very minor significance, but I still feel that's worth mentioning to save the raid trouble. Last night we wrapped up H. Morchok, and from every attempt it appears that the player closest to the current threat target (IE the tank) takes the second 'double share' of the damage. So if your ranged and healers tend to be in front of Morchok (or Kohcrom) you may need to move to the front for every stomp if you're soaking the double share (and you probably are). This is particularly pertinent when the boss is being dragged closer to a crystal.

sp00n · 01/04/12, 1:35 PM

Hm, I thought this was fixed already?

Double Stomp damage should now only come down on the heads of the two players closest to the boss.
Source

Or was this a fix to a bug where more than two people received the damage (which I didn't know of), and the actual targetting (which was closest to the tank) wasn't changed at all?

Borscht · 01/04/12, 1:47 PM

During the second phase of the heroic 10-man version of Warmaster Blackhorn, is it a good idea to cleave both Blackhorn and Goriona once they land, or is it not worth risking pushing Blackhorn down to the point that he drains health from Goriona?

Naihan · 01/04/12, 4:42 PM

Why would that be bad? They essentially (not in the proper sense) share a health pool, if I'm not mistaken. If he drains life from her, she goes away quicker.

Sleete · 01/05/12, 12:36 AM

Recup doesn't apply any stacks of Deep Corruption when doing heroic yor'sahj.

Daizey · 01/05/12, 8:49 AM

Originally Posted by Pathal

Dropping Rupture from the rotation on the tendon is a bit of a tossup. The crossover point of where it's worthwhile is somewhere around 18s with the 30% bleed debuff (with averaged damage numbers, with FW it's much longer), just long enough to not be of any significant help in this scenario. I don't remember the exact value, I just remember that it needs to last slightly longer than a single Rupture does to be a clear gain. I wouldn't criticize anyone who puts it on the tendon, or leaves it off as of now, but if I were to guess I would say Rupture isn't worth it. Given the way the fight works.

You will have FW up for the entire tendon, just eviscerate.

Sulphuric · 01/05/12, 8:51 PM

Originally Posted by Nerio

It appears that sub is the spec of choice for heroic spine, since you can have SD up for every tendon. It's my understanding that double wound poison will yield more damage when you do target switches every 30 seconds or less (Sub Compendium). I just want to verify this is still the case, as I'm seeing some rogues running IP/DP and some using WP for it.

I wonder what kind of implications having to use expose armor may bring, whether it be a change of spec or cooldown usage. We may not be bringing another class that can do this, so I may be stuck with it.

I'm also curious about rupture use. One of the videos Exodus released is a rogue PoV, and while he's specced for it and uses it on the Amalgamations, he does not use it on the tendon. If using it on the tendon is not optimal, I would consider taking points out of restless blades for something like enveloping shadows if it proves to be more useful. I'm seeing nearly every rogue who has downed the fight speccing into it but not using rupture on the tendon. Having it will boost Amalgamation DPS, and killing those faster may negate any benefit from enveloping shadows.

I would highly discourage going double wound for the fight as it's not *all* about the tendon. The dps required for the amalagation is also fairly tight, so you're putting yourself in a high disadvantage for a minor dps increase on the tendon. And if you're already wiping on the third plate, it's not tendon dps that wipes you, it's players dying.

For the expose, you should always leave that for a druid.

As for rotation, what we found most effective was: use 5p recup when tank runs in soaking the bloods, cloak -> shadowstep the amalagation -> 5p snd (before the cast finishes) -> tricks (when it's dead & unglyphed) -> trinket -> vanish -> prem & ambush -> rupture -> shadow dance -> ambush to 5p -> eviscerate -> repeat last 2 without refreshing snd/recup at any point

sinnaa · 01/10/12, 12:47 AM

First, I think i got all the changes to here... I may have missed a few, just let me know.

Second, we stacked our raid with generally 5-6 rogues for Spine (our kill had 6). ALL 6 used WP/WP and we rarely had a problem with amalg. In fact, based on our strat, we generally had to stop damage and wait a few seconds.

As for the rotation, None of us used rupture.

This was my rotation and spec: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
5cp built while waiting-->Recup as blast casts-->cloak-->hemo to 3-4 CP-->Let HAT get you to 5-->ShS blood-->Pop SnD-->ToTT-->Vanish with trinket-->Premed/Ambush-->Evisc-->Backstab to 5-->Evisc-->ShD-->Ambush/evisc spam till ShD fades-->Backstab/Evisc until the end.

Sulphuric · 01/11/12, 3:29 PM

I fail to see why you would;

1) Use hemo as there's no graceful period to apply it. You'll instantly run into 5p -> 1 finisher, and already then you'll lose ~5 seconds of the hemo glyh dot, and you'll be better off using shadowdance, snd and backstab glyphs to maximize the burst. (this goes for some of the previous posts suggesting it)

2) Delay shadowdance when it alligns perfectly with tricks of the trade (t13x2 bonus) granting you a lot of burst during shadow dance. And it's not worthwhile delaying tricks seeing as you can unglyph it for additional damage at no loss (seeing as you'll precast it regardless).

3) Skip Rupture - it's more DPE.