Cataclysm 4.3.x Raid Mechanics - Page 23

Seliathan · 03/03/12, 8:36 AM

Originally Posted by Sakuratei

Why anyone would suggest to not precast Tricks in a short burst phase and instead use a global mid-combat doesn't make sense to me. Precasting tricks still lets the 2set bonus last long enough to allow an Ambush-Evis-Dance-Ambush-Ambush-Evis-Ambush-Ambush combo and still not run out of energy until 2-3 globals after dance fades. (It even supports usage of the Shadowdance glyph, but you run dry on energy just as dance ends.)

I haven't double checked it yet, but I'm fairly certain that you will overcap on energy if you precast tricks thanks to a relatively low energy cost on both the ambush and the eviscerate, not to mention the 25 energy gain after finishing and probably a recuperate tick. When considering a second rogue that you're sharing tricks with, it also greatly enhances each others damage while dancing when used right before it. In the first scenario, you also miss out on one ambush without Find Weakness.

Originally Posted by Sakuratei

As for the 4p eviscerates, a dance using 4p eviscerates will have three ambushes and three eviscerates. A regular dance (or as I know it at least) would have 4 ambushes and 2 eviscerates. While I get that the idea is to not waste combo points, I'm pretty sure that the damage advantage of an autocrit Ambush over a 4p Eviscerate is worth more than one wasted CP.

The raw damage output should be higher in the second scenario, although you may eventually miss out on Relentless Strikes procs, which will increase the time you're out of energy completely. Since we're unable to be at proper energy levels for styling over the whole 20 seconds, using only 5 CP finishers should turn out to be the better solution. I currently get 4 Ambushes and 2 Eviscerates in a 6 second dance (currently using the hemo glyph for increased amalgation DPS), since I'd rather overcap on CP than lose out on 25 energy if Relentless Strikes don't proc.

nordveien · 03/03/12, 5:06 PM

Originally Posted by PikaPika1006

The variance that people have between what version of the daggers and what slow weapon would make that kind of pointless. Myself, for example, having 416 No'kaled and the 406 daggers.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't call that kind of info (which fights favor which weapons, that is) useless in this guide, far from it. Basically, what I think would be most interesting to know is which fights favor a slow MH (No'Kaled) and which a fast one (quest dagger). The difference in OH (quest dagger of H Electrowing) is not that critical and is something that anyone can figure out for themselves. The fact that fast MH would give you more Spellweaving procs on Madness, for instance, may be worth adding.

At this point of the expansion, it would seem like the preferences between the following combinations would be of most interest (Combat spec only, MH choice only):
1. 2nd stage dagger vs Normal No'Kaled
2. 3rd stage dagger vs Heroic No'Kaled (if there even are fights where H No'Kaled is preferable).

Given the assumptions that
a. Normal No'Kaled always beats 1st stage MH dagger
b. Heroic No'Kaled always beats 2nd stage MH dagger

Furtim · 03/04/12, 7:18 AM

If you are using the Stage 2 MH, there is no reason for you NOT to use the Stage 2 OH, as you'll get the stacking Agi buff which outweighs the H:Electrowing.

N:No'Kaled/H:Electrowing just barely edges past Stage 2 Daggers, but once you bring in the extra spellweaving procs from the faster daggers, it will probably outweigh the spellweaving procs you get from the No'Kaled and it's Proc.

Legendary Daggers outperform H:No'Kaled in less than 1 minute when you hit 18 stacks of the buff, period. Especially when you take into account more spellweaving procs, further Shadows of the Destroyer stacks, and the Fury of the Destroyer procs.

Druss · 03/05/12, 6:18 AM

Originally Posted by Sakuratei

Why anyone would suggest to not precast Tricks in a short burst phase and instead use a global mid-combat doesn't make sense to me. Precasting tricks still lets the 2set bonus last long enough to allow an Ambush-Evis-Dance-Ambush-Ambush-Evis-Ambush-Ambush combo and still not run out of energy until 2-3 globals after dance fades. (It even supports usage of the Shadowdance glyph, but you run dry on energy just as dance ends.)

I used to do that on Spine but found that it gave me the energy advantages at the wrong time and did not allow for the best dance nor the best tricks bonus for another person's damage. I've find it best to Vanish > Premed Ambush > Rupture > Hemo (I glyph this in place of ShD as FW is up throughout anyway and the bleed and bleed bonus help overall damage). This gets you to a point where you can then use a global to tricks (unglyphed) and and Prep and while you are doing so HaT procs to ensure you have at least 2 CPs on the tendon. You can then dance/valor trinket with the energy advantage and the person you tricks will be getting a 15% damage bonus at a time when they will almost certainly be on the tendon and unloading all they have).

All that said the fact is tendons are no longer the issue (we get them to 35% in the first burst phase) - at least for us - we're overwhelmed by bloods in P3 and tanks/healers aren't quite managing.

Egészségére · 03/15/12, 7:38 PM

Hey!

Dont know if it has been mentioned yet.
But i feint works on Warmaster Blackhorn's Disrupting Roar.

Mythix · 03/17/12, 6:08 AM

Madness heroic:
You can cloak the explosion of the parasite.
Cloak at 0.3sec and you take no Dmg.

Shygo Ryu · 03/22/12, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Mythix

Madness heroic:
You can cloak the explosion of the parasite.
Cloak at 0.3sec and you take no Dmg.

You can drop the parasite from you using CoS, but it will kill anyone near you, so be careful, if you wanna use it.
You can use cloack to resist Elementium Bolt explosion(works for all duration of CoS)

Adei35 · 03/25/12, 2:58 AM

Is it better to wear 2t12 on the H Madness for mut?

sinnaa · 03/26/12, 11:58 PM

Since there have been no new developments in recent weeks, I will no longer be actively updating this thread unless I receive a PM or something changes drastically in game. I will still be around, but I do not plan to actively check this thread every few days.

It has been a pleasure updating this thread and participating in the EJ rogue community. As always, if you wish to speak with me, you can reach me in game on Stormreaver Horde (just look for sinnaa, as most of my toon names have that in it, Fiishstiicks, or bettybrogan) or through PM on these forums. I hope everyone found the guide very helpful and accurate, and I think everyone who helped in creating it. If I do not submit to moderating the next mechanics thread, you can at least count that I will be testing bosses and posting about them when I can, although do remember I may hold back a little during heavy progression ;-) ;-)

See you all in MoP :-)

bi0bi0 · 04/12/12, 12:23 PM

You can get Find Weakness up on Ultraxion as Goblin if you got also tired in Dragon Soul

Its simply Shadowstep + some Kind of Slowfall -> Dance -> Prep -> Shadowstep+Goblin Jump (Macro: /cast Shadowstep
/cast Rocket Jump(Racial))

Small Fraps -> Find Weakness - Ultraxion - YouTube

Kromos · 04/27/12, 2:09 PM

Madness HC question. (10H)

By this time (15% nerf and 20% upcoming) It is recommended to use T12H2pc as combat for spellweaving procs or should I stick with T13H4pc?

gheistlich · 05/05/12, 9:25 PM

Am I missing something? I could be wrong, but I don't think the T12H2pc procs spellweave; it's just an extra dot.

PikaPika1006 · 05/05/12, 10:15 PM

Dots can proc spellweaving. No idea whether 2pc t12 can or not, but most dots can.

Forcextime · 05/08/12, 8:35 AM

Has anyone been able to confirm whether you can target the mutated corruption and cleave the parasite?

Zafo · 05/08/12, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Forcextime

Has anyone been able to confirm whether you can target the mutated corruption and cleave the parasite?

Yeah, I do it all the time on the last platform.