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Old 04/20/12, 3:26 AM   #286
Probaton
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Hellfire (EU)
Except that the creature's targeting ring tends to be the first thing that is obliterated by the thousands of spell effects popped by zealous players. I'm not a big fan of the feature but if they do implement it I'd prefer they did it right. Personally the ideal situation seems to be exposing target direction in the lua api so people can just write an add-on for it.

Last edited by Jessamy : 04/20/12 at 10:39 PM.

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Old 04/21/12, 5:59 PM   #287
Pathal
Don Flamenco
 
Pathal's Avatar
 
Worgen Rogue
 
Doomhammer
While completely acknowledging the fact that "beta is beta", it looks like we might see a/some haste plateau(s) for sub rogues in Mists. With a predictable energy generation rate, we should be able to find an energy regen level we end at 5CP as Rupture ends, thus maximizing uptime easier.

It may not have a large impact on gearing in the long run, but it seems that there should be one.

To Test Customized Gearsets: An abbreviated guide on setting up a script for Shadowcraft
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Old 04/21/12, 11:25 PM   #288
poptya
Glass Joe
 
Pandaren Rogue
 
Boulderfist
Regarding shadowblades:

Considering it essentially turns combat's rotation into mut's rotation, will it end up being better to use 4cp Eviscerates, or waste the extra combo point and get 5.

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Old 04/22/12, 3:04 AM   #289
 Viper
Eyelaser Ninja Pirate
 
Viper's Avatar
 
Troll Rogue
 
Burning Blade
Except for fights involving extreme amounts of target swapping, you'll be using Anticipation as your level 90 talent and therefore the extra combo points can't be wasted and you'll be able to always do 5 point finishers.

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Old 04/22/12, 8:44 AM   #290
Verain
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Ursin
Originally Posted by poptya View Post
Regarding shadowblades:

Considering it essentially turns combat's rotation into mut's rotation, will it end up being better to use 4cp Eviscerates, or waste the extra combo point and get 5.
We will need simulations or someone to math this out once the numbers settle down to be sure about this. Remember that mutilate costs a lot of energy, and assassination has less energy than combat, and the scaling is different as combat's mastery does not matter for finishers, but revealing strike does.

Originally Posted by Viper
Except for fights involving extreme amounts of target swapping, you'll be using Anticipation as your level 90 talent and therefore the extra combo points can't be wasted and you'll be able to always do 5 point finishers.
We don't know how anticipation works. We ASSUME it intelligently makes combo points carry over, but the wording "When one of your attacks generates a combo point on a target that already has 5 combo points, you gain a charge..." could mean that SSing at 4 gives you 5, and no charge (because you didn't do an attack that generates a combo point on a target with 5). It could also mean that SSing at 5 combo points during shadow blades and having the 20% extra combo point proc gives you one charge instead of three. I'm pretty sure we don't know yet, at least. And even if it does work the way it should, we have to handle the rotation for the few times we benefit more from a talent besides anticipation, if those exist- and they will in pvp, if nowhere else.

Last edited by Verain : 04/22/12 at 8:49 AM.

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Old 04/22/12, 8:54 AM   #291
Verain
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Ursin
Originally Posted by Probaton View Post
I tend to consider it one of the challenges of running sub. Yes, having to run around your target like a headless chicken can be annoying from time to time but it usually doesn't take more than two seconds. Personally adding yet another targeting aid sounds like exactly the sort of player-coddling blizzard is being chided for by what seems like 90% of the forums. Oh, and it'd be ugly and I don't like it when my game is ugly .
Those 90% are playing classes besides rogues. We don't have any of their flashy lights built in, not one thing for the whole class.

I would appreciate something to show me target facing besides my moves failing to work. I don't think it's a big deal, because most bosses you can kind of tell, but honestly, being positional is a disadvantage, and does need compensatory advantages (advantages sub currently has, I feel). I mean, there are plenty of bosses that turn to cast a spell or use an instant, and in those times, backstab fails- then there are the much more common times when a boss is turned rapidly or otherwise moved by the tank, and of course there's the Ultraxxions of the world, where God took their butt away.

I think I'd like a little compass element best, so I could glance at that and see whether I should strafe right or left to get back in south position.

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Old 04/22/12, 9:03 AM   #292
bi0bi0
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Eredar (EU)
Originally Posted by poptya View Post
Regarding shadowblades:

Considering it essentially turns combat's rotation into mut's rotation, will it end up being better to use 4cp Eviscerates, or waste the extra combo point and get 5.
Anticipation (Anticipation - Spell - World of Warcraft) should solve this Problem. Due the RvS Change you will get realy often in this Situation in MoP.

Regarding Crimson Tempest, at the moment it duplicates with Blade Flurry, so the Target get 2 Crimson Tempest hits an the Blade Flurry Target gets all Crimson Tempest hits (like FoK in Wotlk). Example Pic of what i mean.

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Old 04/22/12, 9:40 AM   #293
Verain
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Ursin
In LK, I was pretty sure fan worked with blade flurry like this: Fan hit all your targets, and the single fan hit that hit your primary target got forked by the blade flurry onto the second target. So all targets except secondary got hit by fan, secondary got hit by fan and also the forked fan strike from primary. Was it really as good as you say?

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Old 04/22/12, 3:44 PM   #294
Nerio
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Rogue
 
Bleeding Hollow
Originally Posted by Verain View Post
In LK, I was pretty sure fan worked with blade flurry like this: Fan hit all your targets, and the single fan hit that hit your primary target got forked by the blade flurry onto the second target. So all targets except secondary got hit by fan, secondary got hit by fan and also the forked fan strike from primary. Was it really as good as you say?
Blade flurry could trigger off multiple fan hits, provided you were in melee range of something for it to hit. One of the common strats for maximized dps on Heroic Anub was positioning yourself in a way that Fan would hit all 4 adds and Anub, but you were only close enough to Anub so that all the blade flurry hits would hit him instead of the adds.

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Old 04/22/12, 5:15 PM   #295
Sarvius
Don Flamenco
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Maiev
To clarify: every single fan hit was cleaved with blade flurry, but they were all consolidated onto that one target. So if you did 13k total aoe damage with a cast, and then another target would get hit for 13k. Same behavior as what bi0bi0 is reporting.

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Old 04/22/12, 7:26 PM   #296
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
I don't remember the FoK hits being guaranteed to all BF to the same target. Certainly if it was the only target in range (note that the range of BF (5 yards) is less than the range of FoK (8 yards) it would get all the hits, but I don't know that that was guaranteed if their were multiple targets within range.

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Old 04/22/12, 11:40 PM   #297
Sarvius
Don Flamenco
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Maiev
Is there any reason it would behave differently than that? You can game which target blade flurry hits to a small degree, but it doesn't swap around unless another factor changes - meaning either you or the pack of mobs move. I don't recall having tested it empirically, but that's certainly the behavior I remember *believing* I saw.

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Old 04/23/12, 1:02 AM   #298
Verain
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Ursin
I would not expect blade flurry to fork all aoe, actually, going forward. Copying one, or to a limited extent, or even doubling the fan damage done, would all be defensible in some fashion, but anything beyond copying a single fan would likely make combat pull ahead of the other specs in pve, and even possible have some downsides in medium scale pvp.

Remember that blade flurry, back at level 80, was a cooldown- it wasn't something active all the time. The purpose and use of blade flurry in current content seems pretty clear, and I'd think that's worth keeping- having strange interactions with aoe moves could definitely have downsides, balance wise.

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Old 04/23/12, 4:55 AM   #299
jtstormrage
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Rogue
 
Stormrage (EU)
Given that we will not be able to glyph BF, it will nerf our energy regen by 30%, and so I do not think we will use it in our aoe rotation, even if it duplicates Crimson Tempest.

Most of our aoe damage will be Poison damage, and with BF up we get 30% fewer Poison procs, and 30% fewer cps, which we use for Crimson Tempests.

I have not done any maths myself, but my intuition is that we will do more mass-aoe without BF (happy to be corrected though).

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Old 04/23/12, 7:21 AM   #300
bural
Piston Honda
 
Troll Rogue
 
Genjuros (EU)
Speaking of energy regen I must admit I still find the SS glyph somewhat clunky. At the risk of wish-lishting, managing an excess of energy could easily be turned into a signature rotation challenge for combat with whatever skill (Tricks?) increasing energy cost and ability damage by X% either as a toggle or for a fixed time period. Modifying the energy to damage ratio via a glyph might add depth to optimization tools, but adds very little to actual gameplay.

Last edited by bural : 04/23/12 at 7:30 AM.

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