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Old 04/23/12, 12:14 PM   #301
Hashshasheen
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Aggramar
DroodFocus to show positioning for backstab

Originally Posted by Neckface View Post
With a clear intent to make Subtlety more raid viable (in the sense of narrowing the delta between theoretical dps and actual dps for mortals) isn't it time to make the positional requirement a bit more manageable? Between spell effects and tricky camera angles, in the thick of things I often have no idea what's front and what's back. Sometimes I just circle strafe, spamming backstab until something happens. I for one would love there to be some kind of modification to the red target indicator on the ground to show you where the front and back of your target are.

Or am I the only one who has problems with this?
This addon does a lot of things but I only use it to indicate when I'm out of range or not behind my target.

DroodFocus - Buffs & Debuffs - World of Warcraft Addons - Curse

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Old 04/23/12, 5:08 PM   #302
Twoboxer
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Rogue
 
Uldaman
Originally Posted by Hashshasheen View Post
This addon does a lot of things but I only use it to indicate when I'm out of range or not behind my target.

DroodFocus - Buffs & Debuffs - World of Warcraft Addons - Curse
Loaded and configured DroodFocus today. Its a nice addon that can do a lot of stuff. Unfortunately, it only tells me why (eg) the backstab failed, a very small improvement over the text already available.

As melee I'm always primarily focused on my target. If I could always see my target's image and always see a recognizable face, all of the decisions for movement and choice of attack flow easily. The problems caused by multiple (sometimes faceless) mobs, the sheer mass of 25-man raids, and overwhelming special effects can be resolved with a simple melee-range target ring, including a "front" notch/indicator, that shows through all of the above. I don't feel this is coddling or an unreasonable expectation from any WoW-like game.

I'm wanting a prospective, not a retrospective indicator to replace the face that may not be there or may not be visible to me.

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Old 04/24/12, 8:05 PM   #303
Crevan
Don Flamenco
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Latest beta update gives us the t14 set bonuses:
Rogue T14 2P Bonus: Venomous Wounds damage +20%, SS damage +15%, BS damage +10%;
Rogue T14 4P Bonus: Cooldown on Shadow Blades reduced in half.

Like most bonuses for the first tier of an expansion - nothing game-changing, just plain increases to our main damage sources (although VW instead of mutilate is a bit strange). Four-piece seems like an invitation to play with our new toys more often.

EDIT: Not sure if this is rogue-related at all, but one of the new spells added in the patch is Blurring Slash, which looks suspiciously similar to our long-lost Ghostly Strike.

Last edited by Crevan : 04/24/12 at 8:22 PM.

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Old 04/24/12, 9:14 PM   #304
Pathal
Don Flamenco
 
Pathal's Avatar
 
Worgen Rogue
 
Doomhammer
I think they've been petrified of Mutilate's controlled burst ever since early Wrath, they nerfed it several ways at once, and have only touched it recently when they baked the %modifier in for poisoned targets.

Not saying it is or isn't a legitimate concern in the current game design, I've just been known to don my tinfoil hat from time to time.

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Old 04/24/12, 11:06 PM   #305
Moritsume
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Arthas
Latest beta patch increased rogue damage across the board,

Rogue (Forums)

Ambush - Damage increased 21%.
Crimson Tempest - Damage increased 21%.
Deadly Poison - Damage increased 21%.
Eviscerate - Damage increased 21%.
Fan of Knives - Radius increased 8 yds, damage increased 21%, AP scaling reduced to 14%, down from 40%.
Garrote - Damage increased 21%.
Gouge - Damage increased 21%.
Rupture - Damage increased 21%.
Throw - Damage increased 21%.
Wound Poison - Damage increased 21%.


Rogue - Talents

Deadly Throw - Damage increased 21%.
Shuriken Toss - Damage increased 21%.


Rogue - Assassination

Dispatch - Damage increased 21%.
Envenom - Damage increased 21%.
Mutilate - Damage increased 21%.
Venomous Wounds - Damage increased 21%.


Rogue - Subtlety

Backstab - Damage increased 21%.

Fan of Knives having a little more AoE range will be nice, and the AP Scaling nerf doesn't seem like it would hurt a Crimsom Tempest rotation too much.

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Old 04/24/12, 11:15 PM   #306
fffxc2
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Exodar
Originally Posted by Moritsume View Post
Fan of Knives having a little more AoE range will be nice, and the AP Scaling nerf doesn't seem like it would hurt a Crimsom Tempest rotation too much.
The range increase to fan of knives is just increasing the base range of the fok due to losing the glyph that increased its range.

Last edited by fffxc2 : 04/25/12 at 2:16 AM.

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Old 04/25/12, 2:06 AM   #307
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
Looks like the 21% buff was just a mmo-champion glitch. Only real patch notes are FoK going from 8yds to 10, and Glyph of FoK becoming Glyph of Useful Only While Leveling.

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Old 04/25/12, 9:09 AM   #308
maxomano
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Разувий (EU)
I wonder why 1.4 daggers still in game?

I remember bluepost, that was explaining disign for rogue weapons in MoP and it was said, that mut and sub will use 1.8\1.8 daggers while combat prefer 2.6MH\1.8OH and there will be no 1.4 weapons at all.

Combat potency changes looks great in that case. DP also changed to % based.

And now i see Malevolent Gladiator's Shiv

So is it double Webbed Death for mut comeback?

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Old 04/25/12, 2:12 PM   #309
Hildegard
King Hippo
 
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Gnome Rogue
 
Aegwynn (EU)
For PVP a fast dagger is better, because Shiv is used a lot and with a faster weapon the energy cost is lower. Also crippling poison has no ppm mechanic, as far as I remember.

Hildegard Sprigglespruxx - Arena Junkies Content Editor
AJ - Facebook - Twitter - Reddit - youTube

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Old 04/25/12, 4:52 PM   #310
Docrev
Piston Honda
 
Undead Rogue
 
Zul'Jin
Originally Posted by maxomano View Post
I wonder why 1.4 daggers still in game?

I remember bluepost, that was explaining disign for rogue weapons in MoP and it was said, that mut and sub will use 1.8\1.8 daggers while combat prefer 2.6MH\1.8OH and there will be no 1.4 weapons at all.

Combat potency changes looks great in that case. DP also changed to % based.

And now i see Malevolent Gladiator's Shiv

So is it double Webbed Death for mut comeback?
Assuming the PvP shivs make it to live, you'd still have at best one 1.4 weapon, since they're offhand only. The only other daggers I could find in the MOP Wowhead database with a speed faster than 1.8 and an item level of at least 400 are caster daggers (or stuff from 4.3): Daggers - Items - World of Warcraft

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Old 04/25/12, 5:42 PM   #311
PikaPika1006
Von Kaiser
 
PikaPika1006's Avatar
 
Pandaren Rogue
 
Illidan
Shiv's energy cost is independent of weapon speed as of right now on beta, 20 energy with a 1.4 offhand, 20 energy with a 2.6 offhand.

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Old 04/25/12, 8:44 PM   #312
Minituk
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Emerald Dream
Blizzard has been saying that they want to make all 3 spec's more reasonable for raiding. But right now, The 4 set makes it feel like they are once again making Combat the most powerful spec once again. Since Combat puts most of its emphasis on auto attacks, Making out 2.6 sec weapon ignore armor and do pure shadow damage feels a little more powerful that it would for Sub and Assassination.

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Old 04/25/12, 8:56 PM   #313
Sarvius
Don Flamenco
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Maiev
Blizzard doesn't release set bonuses that are dramatically (or even very noticeably) skewed towards one raid spec over the others unless it's to make up for a hole in the first place. We're not going to be forced into combat because the 4set looks like it'll be better for it. Maybe we'll be all-but-forced into combat by other factors, but commenting on balance based on a gut feeling when the game is months and months away isn't going to be very productive.

Edit: I should be less absolute in my language, because someone is going to link me a single set bonus where it wasn't the case. But you get my point. We don't know yet, and we won't know for a very long time, so productive discussion should really center on glaring balance issues and gameplay/class design.

Last edited by Sarvius : 04/25/12 at 9:18 PM.

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Old 04/26/12, 3:49 AM   #314
PikaPika1006
Von Kaiser
 
PikaPika1006's Avatar
 
Pandaren Rogue
 
Illidan
Our symbiosis spell has been buffed significantly, now having crit reduction and a stamina increase in addition to the armor bonus.
Growl - Spell - World of Warcraft
Going to be a lot more viable for pinch offtanking now.

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Old 04/26/12, 5:48 AM   #315
jtstormrage
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Rogue
 
Stormrage (EU)
Originally Posted by Docrev View Post
MMO Champion has a list of the Symbiosis spells, and rogues apparently... get a tanking cooldown?
Really, the list of spells that everyone gets is kind of odd: MMO-Champion - Druid Symbiosis Spells, Temple of Kotmogu Preview, Galleon Raid, Blue Posts
The more I think about it, the more I like this change. I am sure that Rogues will be the heros on some fights.

If the tank dies in normal combat, with 330% armour, good avoidance and some parry (I assume we keep our 5% Parry), we will be able to mitigate and/or avoid direct damage as well as most tanks, and if we spec Elusiveness (which will work awesomely here) and stack Combat Readiness, we will be amazing tanks for those initial 30 seconds. We have Feint for aoe damage (dragon breaths, cleaves etc) and can kite well if needed. We can also Evasion when the Bear buff is coming to an end. Also, with tank aggro being as high as it is, unless the tank dies early, and assuming our Symbiosis taunt puts us to the top of the threat table like a normal taunt, we will be able to hold aggro for ages.

I accept we will have less HP (EDIT: apparently getting 20% more hp in "Rogue Bear Form" in the latest build) but do not think we will take enough damage for it to make a huge difference (and have Evasion as back up).

When it comes to enrage timer tanking, it is not guaranteed but we have a good chance of surviving with Evasion up, we can use Prep for a second Evasion and when Evasion is almost off (if we are still alive) we can use Sprint to get away OR if we dont spec Prep (because surviving through two Evasions is unlikely) then we can Evasion once and use Shadowstep or BOS to kite for a bit, and then even Vanish without dying.

It could save the raid and I am sure that Rogues will help get first kills for some guilds. We won't get Symbiosis much but we will get it sometimes.

EDIT: just saw the buff which makes the above even more viable

Last edited by jtstormrage : 04/27/12 at 4:16 AM.

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