Mists of Pandaria: All Specs - Page 30

madsushi · 08/16/12, 5:39 PM

Originally Posted by Torima

I can see that for combat and sub but currently poisons are going off the yellow hit cap only at 7.5% hit since we still get the refund when skills are dodged unless I'm under estimating the amount of white hits that expertise would reduce.

Poisons are actually still using the 15% miss rate, based on my PTR testing. They use the melee hit "chance", which of course has been lined up with the spell hit chance. I ran 8.5% hit on the PTR and saw a significant number of Deadly Poison misses.

Torima · 08/16/12, 5:45 PM

That seems strange, after doing the beta testing with logs when they created the new test dummy I had 0 misses with only 7.7% hit and I think expertise around 2.5%. Here's a log if you want to see World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis or I'm currently reading something wrong in it or its not showing up.

madsushi · 08/16/12, 6:00 PM

Originally Posted by Torima

That seems strange, after doing the beta testing with logs when they created the new test dummy I had 0 misses with only 7.7% hit and I think expertise around 2.5%. Here's a log if you want to see World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis or I'm currently reading something wrong in it or its not showing up.

I don't see any misses in your parse. I wasn't attacking the new test dummy, I was just a level 85 attacking the current level 88 boss dummy in Orgrimmar. I wonder if the poison miss rate is only 7.5% at level 90 and not at level 85.

Pathal · 08/16/12, 6:06 PM

Or you could just present a log.

madsushi · 08/16/12, 6:10 PM

Originally Posted by Pathal

Or you could just present a log.

I was working on that.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Level 85, attacking the level 88 dummy (Raider's Training Dummy), with 8.5% hit and 0 expertise.

Pathal · 08/16/12, 6:15 PM

You're attacking a 93 level mob, not an 88. Notice the 5 missed SS despite having 8.5% hit?

madsushi · 08/16/12, 6:23 PM

Originally Posted by Pathal

You're attacking a 93 level mob, not an 88. Notice the 5 missed SS despite having 8.5% hit?

My understanding is that the old Raiding dummies are still level 88 while the new testing dummies are 93, but considering that my SS missed, it looks like it was upgraded at some point. My other parses from earlier in July don't have any yellow misses, but I wasn't testing poisons then.

Tytyl · 08/16/12, 6:28 PM

Btw, is there any guide in preparation for MoP since we are pretty close to the release of 5.0?

kindath · 08/16/12, 8:38 PM

I'm not sure of the actual benefit of Shadow Focus for Assassination and Combat, given that both specs will generally open -> finisher. At the very least, you're wasting 1 gcd of energy regen between the opener and the finisher, and if the finisher procs ruthlessness (40-60% chance for assassination with ambush, 40% chance for combat with ambush?) then you're wasting energy regen for that GCD too. You would then lose ~15 energy of the 60 energy you saved for assassination, and ~17 energy for combat, before haste.
You could counteract this a bit by using ambush > mutilate > finisher or ambush > RvS > SnD, but you'd still miss out on the regen of that first GCD.

Of course, even that reduced energy regen may be better than 25% increased damage on the ambush.

Subterfuge isn't great for Assassination given that mutilate + 30% dispatch is so strong in comparison to an ambush, but it might be a viable option for combat (comparing ambush to sinister strikes).

I would assume that sub's optimal opener is still to take Subterfuge and go Premed + Garrote -> Slice and Dice -> Ambush for the extra couple seconds on find weakness.

sinnaa · 08/17/12, 4:34 PM

Originally Posted by Tytyl

Btw, is there any guide in preparation for MoP since we are pretty close to the release of 5.0?

This is a work in progress, and has changed since I published it, but I kinda have one going. It is pre-buffs, has spelling issues, etc., but it might be a nice place to start. It is specific to combat though:
Mist of Pandaria: Combat Rogue Guide | Accession

major edit that isn't in there:
Ambush would probably be the best opener now.

I think I also messed up shadow blades in that post (haven't read in awhile), but pretty sure I changed what I wrote about it. I wrote it about 1-2 weeks before I actually published it. I can't remember that far back!

Tytyl · 08/18/12, 12:08 PM

It would be pretty nice to have ones like those we had for Cata indeed

Thx already for the combat's one even if it's a WIP

Haileaus · 08/19/12, 11:02 AM

Apologies if this has been mentioned earlier.

Did some quick tests regarding openers as sub, specifically Ambush v. Garrote, and if FW+MoS'd eviscerates do more damage than Rupture (of which few ticks would benefit from MoS). The latter, if true, would promote a Garrote opener for SV. I have not done any tests about SnD v. Rupture, though I could see Prem-SnD before the fight making sense if one cannot redirect CP to the boss.

The sample sizes are fairly small, though even with those the numbers are pretty clear. The numbers are on the post I linked, with my conclusions being in the next post.

Hail's Guide to Sub PvE (4.3) - Forums - World of Warcraft

koaschten · 08/19/12, 4:05 PM

Seems like we got a little damage reduction in the last beta build 16004

Rogue (Forums)
Sinister Strike damage and additional damage reduced by 11%.

Assassination
Dispatch now does 450% weapon damage, down from 520%. Additional damage reduced by 26%.
Venomous Wounds damage reduced by 8%.

Combat
Killing Spree now increases all damage done by 50% for the duration, down from 100%.
Revealing Strike now does 135% weapon damage, down from 150%.

Egészségére · 08/24/12, 4:44 AM

Regarding assasination:

Now that venomous wounds only procs from garrote when rupture isnt applied.. Does that mean that you will still use garrote as opener and vanish->garrote, and only apply rupture when garrote runs off? Or wont garrote proc venomous wounds as often as rupture, so theres no actual use for garrote? If thats the case, what should we use as opener instead?

Ps. Will the statpriorities be the same as 4.3 in 5.0?

jtstormrage · 08/24/12, 7:38 AM

Originally Posted by Egészségére

Regarding assasination:

Now that venomous wounds only procs from garrote when rupture isnt applied.. Does that mean that you will still use garrote as opener and vanish->garrote, and only apply rupture when garrote runs off? Or wont garrote proc venomous wounds as often as rupture, so theres no actual use for garrote? If thats the case, what should we use as opener instead?

Ps. Will the statpriorities be the same as 4.3 in 5.0?

Well Garrote ticks every 3 secs. Rupture every 2 secs.

I havent theorycrafted this but I strongly suspect that we will open with Ambush to get the extra cp, and then get Rupture going as soon as possible.