Mists of Pandaria: All Specs - Page 33

Egészségére · 08/30/12, 1:20 PM

The proc has a 20/60 uptime.
1452/3 = 484+429static = 913 average

Heroic compass has 517 agility and average 546,3 haste*

*Proc is 3278 with a 20/120 uptime

Verain · 08/31/12, 5:27 AM

The trinket's stats seem really strong. I believe the ICD used to be higher, and was shrunk with the patch, in addition to the fact that the pvp resil and pvp powa no longer use up the item's budget, freeing it for raw agi.

jtstormrage · 08/31/12, 5:48 AM

Originally Posted by Egészségére

The proc has a 20/60 uptime.
1452/3 = 484+429static = 913 average

Heroic compass has 517 agility and average 546,3 haste*

*Proc is 3278 with a 20/120 uptime

So crudely put its a question of whether 396 agility (913 - 517) is better than 546,3 haste (assuming no uptime on the proc is lost). According to my maths, using pre-patch EP values, that makes the PvP trinket better than HC SC for all specs.

Sub - Agi 3.95 (EP) x 396 = 1564.2
Sub - Haste 1.75 (EP) x 546.3 = 956.025

Combat - Agi 2.83 (EP) x 396 = 1120.68
Combat - Haste 1.87 (EP) x 546.3 = 1021.581

Assassination - Agi 2.75 (EP) x 396 = 1089
Assassination - Haste 1.4 (EP) x 546.3 = 764.82

Nextormento kindly valued Assassination EP values post-patch (Mists of Pandaria: All Specs) but the result remains that the PvP trinket is better

Am I missing anything? I prostrate myself before the top rogue theorycrafters here.

If you have to swap targets and the benefit of the proc is lost then SC potentially becomes better because the static agility is more.

jtstormrage · 08/31/12, 6:02 AM

Delete - same posted twice.

Kushiina · 08/31/12, 6:10 AM

On liveserver i got a ~35% uptime of the pvp trinkets agi proc on a level 85er dummy.
So i guess 60sec ICD is correct.

LukeWalker · 08/31/12, 6:55 AM

Originally Posted by nextormento

yellow_hit:	3.00
agi:	2.99
mastery:	2.24
dodge_exp:	1.81
haste:	1.52
crit:	1.29
white_hit:	1.08
str:	1.05

These are the EP weights I'm getting for a lvl85 assassination rogue in a reasonably close to BiS gear. Hit to the cap, agility and mastery remain as the top stats; expertise caping is indeed a lot more attractive (and possibly unavoidable in current itemization). Crit, however, is not taking any significant lead: the 200% poison crits compensates for the loss of Puncturing Wounds Lethality and the Glyph of Backstab.

Take them with a spoonful of salt: while we have better multi-level support, I'm not really looking much at levels other than 90. Development is still ongoing, so they're bound to change, but at this point I don't expect to find anything major that would turn the table upside down. Also note that those don't look *anything* like the EPs we'll have at lvl90.

so this would also take 50 mastery enchant on boots over 35 agi for assasination.
50x2.24= 112 EP - 35x2.99= 104,65 EP
not a large amount, but still an improvement

Verain · 08/31/12, 11:05 AM

Also note that the "on use" ("type A") trinket from pvp,

Cataclysmic Gladiator's Badge of Conquest - Item - World of Warcraft

Produces 2848 total agility when active, which is for 20 seconds every 2 minutes. Compared to the 2748 stats provided over the same period by the 397 on-use trinket, you may get better mileage out of this guy on spine, depending on how your guild does it. The passive (424 agi) should be better than the passive on the "valor point" trinket (458 haste) for all specs, but note that a 2 minute cooldown limits the uptime. Generally, if your guild gets each tendon to almost dead the first open, you'll do better with a full burn of enhanced stats, but figuring that out could be pretty hard- whereas if your guild actually blows up a tendon on each open, then the pvp trinket looks like a clear winner.

Balthazor · 09/01/12, 5:54 PM

Originally Posted by Lumen222

As far as I've been able to ball park it *seems* like Subterfuge, starting with a Garrote-->Ambush--> SnD, is going to be the best option, due to being fully ramped up in 3 globals. But honestly the entire thing seems like it needs to be modeled in order to really know the answer. Factoring in things like the armor reduction on the first Ambush is beyond me. I guess the good news is nothing is so obviously "the right answer" that it's far and away the best option.

I think one possible sequence is premed-snd-garrote-ambush-5cp rupture, to get your SnD energy going earlier. 2cp SnD gives you 18 seconds duration, I think.

You might be able to fit in a CS if you time it right, which if you have the talent will increase damage 10% on target for 6 seconds. Fit it in between garrote and ambush. The energy required would need a decent amount of haste and SnD running.

Sadly, without anticpation, this will result in CP overflow.

fourdots · 09/01/12, 9:39 PM

Thus spake Aldriana:

" In terms of haste, mastery, and crit... there's no particular reason to believe that haste and mastery will have significantly dropped in value, but crit will have gotten better due to to 200% poison crits. Whether its *enough* better to overtake haste and/or mastery is really anyone's guess until the new modeling gets finished."

Another thing to consider is that poisons now crit at the melee crit rate rather than the spell crit rate. So rather than having around an 8% (or so) chance to do 150% poison damage, you now have a 30% (or so) chance to do 200% poison damage. So while (for Assassination) Mastery will probably still be top dog after we get to 7.5% hit and exp, I wouldn't be surprised to see crit pull ahead of haste. I'm actually tempted to reforge just to try it.

Onner · 09/02/12, 11:34 AM

After the recent buff to CT it seems that the dot is doing a lot of damage i did some test on dummies no buffs etc but the CT dot seems to be doing more damage than rupture overall
So in the future will CT be part of the rotation just to keep the CT dot up?

Backstabi · 09/02/12, 1:37 PM

Originally Posted by Onner

After the recent buff to CT it seems that the dot is doing a lot of damage i did some test on dummies no buffs etc but the CT dot seems to be doing more damage than rupture overall
So in the future will CT be part of the rotation just to keep the CT dot up?

I was wondering this same thing. It seems like Rupture for Sub may be getting overridden by CT for keeping up SV.

The only thing that can potentially hold it back is that CT lasts no where near as long as Rupture, so by using CT for SV, your number of Evis' decline.

• Aldriana · 09/02/12, 1:45 PM

Well, lets estimate damage output by looking at AP coefficients.

Wowhead reports CT has an AP coefficient of .1375, and does 30% additional damage via the DoT. However, they buffed the DoT by 700%, so presumably it does 240% now. Thus, the overall AP coefficient is likely .1375 * (1 + 2.4) = .4675.

Compare this to Eviscerate (.8) and Envenom (.56, but responds to armor differently) and I think the conclusion is that CT is likely not worth it on a single target, but might be on 2 targets (unless you have BF up) and almost certainly will be worth it against 3 or more.

shadowboy813 · 09/02/12, 9:20 PM

I would suspect it would be worthwhile on two targets even for combat. My testing has shown that the initial hit of crimson tempest is cleaved via blade flurry (even if the DoT does not), so against two targets it would be .1375 * (3 + 4.8) = 1.0725, or 0.1375 * (4 + 4.8) = 1.21 if both are within 5yd. This damage scales up very fast for combat on the nearest target (the one struck by blade flurry) since each crimson tempest hit is copied onto a cleave target (I have not done any range-based testing, so I am presuming here that all CT hits are cleaved).

Torima · 09/03/12, 11:34 AM

Just on the point of being curious and seeing what others that have more knowledge of how everything interacts, is assassinations execute even worth switching to anymore? The execute phase is painful to play with it feeling and looking slower then our regular rotation even with end teir gear on which seems that in the start of the expansion with our crit levels even lower I would think the extra finishers and blindside procs from staying in a normal rotation would possibly come out ahead with how much passive damage comes from poisons.

Pathal · 09/03/12, 2:22 PM

It's a debatably small increase (something <10%), but an increase none the less.