Mists of Pandaria: All Specs - Page 4

• Ryazan · 11/23/11, 5:20 AM

I guess I'm interpreting that thing correctly when I say some of our current core abilities (like Envenom and Backstab) have been moved as spec-only abilities?

Improved · 11/23/11, 5:59 AM

In the current form of pvp right now, not having shs or prep is definitely a game breaker. I think Blizzard will realize this soon enough and fix it. Prep does not only reset Vanish, smoke bomb and sprint but also cloak and evasion. It such a powerful talent that nothing can really compete with it, especially not 2 'mobility' talents.

What is left to subtlety itself is pitiful, it feels like they took all the cool abilities that made sub unique and offer them to the other specs too. Something else isn't helping the situation on that regard and it's the level 90 talents. While it is cool that they are revamping those abilities and let's face it some changes were needed, especially for killing spree, I find it deceiving that they chose to go on that way instead or creating new and fun talents. I feel like the current level 90 talents, shouldn't be talents but go back in their original spec only.

When our different specs start using the same core abilities that used to be unique to certain specs, some of the game play is lost and it homogenizes our class. I like the idea to give the players more choices but giving too many choices like the level 90 tier does in his current form for every specs will do the opposite in the end.

Also no pve sub rogue would ever pick something else than shadow dance since of find weakness..

orderofmaken · 11/23/11, 6:59 AM

I can't seem to find Rupture in any of the class, spec or all ability lists of all three specs either at the moment after briefing skimming through.

Kirik · 11/23/11, 7:14 AM

Didn't find neither Rupture, nor Master Poisoner
Any thoughts of mutilate playstyle in MoP ?

Kroyfel · 11/23/11, 7:28 AM

Originally Posted by orderofmaken

I can't seem to find Rupture in any of the class, spec or all ability lists of all three specs either at the moment after briefing skimming through.

There is no Rupture and yet Assassination gets Venomous Wounds and Sub gets Serrated Blades which either indicates that they forgot to add rupture or they are redesigning said abilities. I'm also not seeing Energetic Recovery.

ieatpaperbag · 11/23/11, 7:42 AM

Originally Posted by Kroyfel

There is no Rupture and yet Assassination gets Venomous Wounds and Sub gets Serrated Blades which either indicates that they forgot to add rupture or they are redesigning said abilities. I'm also not seeing Energetic Recovery.

I think it's safe to say that a large portion of this was just straight converted from current talent trees and that there are still changes coming; there was a blue post indicating that DP was being removed and a new poison system was going to be put in place and yet we still see DP listed as a class ability. The only real changes (already mentioned) are materializing Murderous Intent into an ability (currently hitting harder than Backstab), limiting some abilities to specs (Backstab and Envenom), and making RS and a nerfed Fleet Footed baseline. Other than Energetic Recovery and above mentioned Master Poisoner there are a number of DPS talents missing as well

Assassination:
Lethality
Ruthlessness
Puncturing Wounds
Cold Blood
Vile Poisons
Master Poisoner

Combat:
Improved Sinister Strike
Precision
Aggression
Improved Slice and Dice
Savage Combat

Subtlety:
Improved Ambush
Energetic Recovery
Slaughter from the Shadows
Elusiveness
Initiative

I would guess that "Improved <ability>" talents are being removed as passive skills (Improved Recuperate remains as a talent). Savage Combat was already suggested for removal in the revamp preview of raid debuffs. Master Poisoner missing coincides with the suggestion that DP was being removed. There was a discussion a while back about the questionable philosophy of Energetic Recovery, I would guess with the advent of Leeching Poison, the combination of the two would be ridiculous. I think most can agree that Cold Blood was a pretty poor cooldown and that it is a good thing to see that it is missing.

Kirik · 11/23/11, 8:01 AM

Originally Posted by ieatpaperbag

I think it's safe to say that a large portion of this was just straight converted from current talent trees and that there are still changes coming; there was a blue post indicating that DP was being removed and a new poison system was going to be put in place and yet we still see DP listed as a class ability. The only real changes (already mentioned) are materializing Murderous Intent into an ability, limiting some abilities to specs (Backstab and Envenom), and making RS and a nerfed Fleet Footed baseline.

Didn't they remove only DP stacks?

Ozzmar · 11/23/11, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Improved

In the current form of pvp right now, not having shs or prep is definitely a game breaker. I think Blizzard will realize this soon enough and fix it. Prep does not only reset Vanish, smoke bomb and sprint but also cloak and evasion. It such a powerful talent that nothing can really compete with it, especially not 2 'mobility' talents.

Having been around the rogue community off and on for years, I can guarantee Blizzard is keenly aware of the potency of Preparation, seeing as they have nerfed the crap out of it numerous times...

- Level 70 - Took Blade Flurry out from rogues mace stunning people to death
- Took Cloak of Shadows out of it so rogues aren't basically invincible vs. casters for ~10 seconds

It's purely speculative, but their recent change to allow players to earn Conquest Points from UN-rated battlegrounds [ie, without doing RBGs or Arena] may be a reason they'd be hesitant to give any leeway back with Preparation. Prep is a staple in Arenas for sure, and to a lesser extent in Rated BGs (Smoke Bomb-ing FCs), but it's far less vital in a simple BG match, which is what I suspect a majority of players will flock to if they aren't Arena fans and are frustrated trying to find a good RBG group.

Minor side note: Prep resets Shadowstep, not Cloak*

Enzo90910 · 11/23/11, 10:54 AM

I don't see the daggers requirement on the new Mutilate. But since Dispatch (the new <35% backstab) has said requirement, I guess it only means you can now use non-daggers while leveling as Assasination.

Reeve · 11/23/11, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Enzo90910

I don't see the daggers requirement on the new Mutilate. But since Dispatch (the new <35% backstab) has said requirement, I guess it only means you can now use non-daggers while leveling as Assasination.

I'm sure that's probably a tooltip error.

Grailwatcher · 11/23/11, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by orderofmaken

I can't seem to find Rupture in any of the class, spec or all ability lists of all three specs either at the moment after briefing skimming through.

It (rupture) isn't listed although that is most likely an error as serrated blades(Sub) still has a 20% chance per CP to refresh Rupture; as well as Venomous Wounds (Ass.) still exists (base damage increased from 675 to 855).

The synergy of Assassination(overkill/Venomous Wounds) with subterfuge, Prep, and Shadow Dance has alot of potential for a tremendous amount of increased energy regen thoughout an encounter.

Envenom obviously isn't what the future envenom will be, based on their stated design intent of using 1 damage/1 utility poison, as well as removing the ramp up time for DP stacks. I'm very curious to see how that plays out and what the overarching effects will be on the rotation.

Zafo · 11/23/11, 2:04 PM

Killing Spree, as I interpret it from their explanation at Blizzcon, is improved in such a way that you will not jump to multiple nearby targets by default. If you want to stay on the same target the entire time, do nothing. However, if you want to jump around to multiple targets, you can press the killing spree button again and you will jump each time you press it. You're limited to 5 jumps at 1 jump per second. Generating 5 combo points is just their way of making sure that your last target has 5 points when you finish. You won't be able to do anything else, such as finishers, during Killing Spree so you'll only have the 5 to spend when it's done.

That's my take on it anyways.

It looks like Overkill is still in its current form on the list, meaning that Prep will be a 'must have' for Assassination since it resets Vanish, which is unfortunate.

Previn · 11/23/11, 2:21 PM

Sub really looks like a mess right now especially for leveling and PvP. Backstab is delayed until 40, Subterfuge looks like a must have from the first tier for them and hemo is the level 10 spec move with no bleeds since rupture is missing entirely at the moment. With a quick eyeball it looks like assassination is going to be king of PvP by a long shot, so sub will probably drop off the radar again for people playing it.

• Aldriana · 11/23/11, 2:29 PM

I would encourage people to avoid reading too much into the current state of the talents posted. Its not even up-to-date with what they've announced in terms of changes to Bandit's Guile and damage poisons, and has obvious glaring omissions (like Rupture). Hence, I wouldn't read too much into the current oddities of the trees. Yes, Revealing Strike is currently strictly better than Sinister Strike. Yes, Hemo is now strictly better than Backstab. Yes, Overkill still exists, Bandit's Guile still sucks, and so on. What we have is a direct port of our more interesting abilities into the new system, which means that the changes they have promised us are not yet present, and the absence of some of our more boring DPS talents (like Improved Sinister Strike and Opportunity) creates some oddities in terms of relative ability power. It is absolutely the case that it would be highly undesirable for things to launch in this form. It is also the case that they almost certainly won't. So I would encourage people to focus on what's actually changed rather than what has stayed the same, and not worry excessively about the exact numerical tuning of abilities at this stage.

Personally, I think the most interesting changes so far are that the run speed bonus of Fleet Footed is now a passive benefit for all specs, and that the positional dependence of Assassination's execute mechanic has been removed.

Originally Posted by Zafo

Killing Spree, as I interpret it from their explanation at Blizzcon, is improved in such a way that you will not jump to multiple nearby targets by default. If you want to stay on the same target the entire time, do nothing. However, if you want to jump around to multiple targets, you can press the killing spree button again and you will jump each time you press it. You're limited to 5 jumps at 1 jump per second. Generating 5 combo points is just their way of making sure that your last target has 5 points when you finish. You won't be able to do anything else, such as finishers, during Killing Spree so you'll only have the 5 to spend when it's done.

This is not my understanding. From reading the ability and from talking to some people at Blizzcon, I believe the current design is that each jump of KSp provides 5 combo points, such when you use it you will alternate KSp jumps with finishers. This will only be remotely usable if they remove KSp from the GCD; I don't know if that's planned or not. Frankly, I think the free finishers (echoing our legendary proc) is a more interesting cooldown without all the jumping around; I suppose its helpful for cheap multiDoTing of packs, allowing a 5pt rupture on 5 different targets, but all in all I'd rather have free finishers as a distinct mechanic from KSp.

Grailwatcher · 11/23/11, 2:48 PM

Originally Posted by Ozzmar

Having been around the rogue community off and on for years, I can guarantee Blizzard is keenly aware of the potency of Preparation, seeing as they have nerfed the crap out of it numerous times...

Minor side note: Prep resets Shadowstep, not Cloak*

Your are thinking of the current iteration of Preparation in game now 4.2/4.3. Reread the tooltip for the MoP version. Prep resets:

Sprint
Vanish
Cloak
Evasion
Dismantle
Smokebomb

Also, Cloak as it is listed maintains it's 2min cd, and elusiveness(sub) is no where to be found resulting in Sub losing more of its CD reduction ability and a pvp nerf (if they don't port all the cd reduction/damage boost talents at a later date)

Originally Posted by Aldriana

Personally, I think the most interesting changes so far are that the run speed bonus of Fleet Footed is now a passive benefit for all specs, and that the positional dependence of Assassination's execute mechanic has been removed.

the addition of fleet footed is absolutely a huge benifit for all the specs, I am however, disappointed to see the increased healing received removed from the ability. With the advent of leeching poison (if the 1damage/1utility poison plan does happen) it most likely won't be too missed.

edit for grammer