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Old 11/06/12, 5:25 PM   #61
LukeWalker
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Rogue
 
Eredar (EU)
AMBER SHAPER:

If you use vanish while "reshape life" is channeld on you, you wont get transformed (and nobody else will) until next cast of reshape life.

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Old 11/06/12, 5:34 PM   #62
koaschten
In the rear with the gear!
 
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Troll Rogue
 
Khaz'goroth (EU)
And you also can't apply the debuff that makes the boss take more dmg...

How to get an Android Authenticator on your PC. (updated feb'11)

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Old 11/06/12, 6:18 PM   #63
LukeWalker
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Rogue
 
Eredar (EU)
we use one guy who is doing it all fight long, so we have enough stacks and enough pools for p3. and if u vanish ur raid dont have to hit u under 20%, thats all dmg u can use for the boss ...

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Old 11/07/12, 7:25 AM   #64
Rosvall
Piston Honda
 
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Pandaren Rogue
 
Tarren Mill (EU)
I thought I had written this two weeks back, but can't find it.

When soaking Titan Sparks on Will of the Emperor with feint. After you pop it so the animation goes off, you can Shadow Step (preferably to a ranged player). And you will avoid the damage. It takes a little bit of practice, but it is not too hard. You can visually identify the animation going off and then Shadow Step within reasonable reaction time and play it off flawlessly ten times out of ten.

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Old 11/07/12, 2:26 PM   #65
lacslyer
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Korgath
When entering phase 2 of Blade Lord Ta'yak, if you use Killing Spree just before he teleports everyone to the center of the room (right when he hits 20%) you can immune yourself from being put into a tornado. This puts you in the middle of the room instead of on either side at the start of the phase.

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Old 11/07/12, 8:23 PM   #66
EastonS
Von Kaiser
 
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Undead Rogue
 
Kazzak (EU)
Originally Posted by lacslyer View Post
When entering phase 2 of Blade Lord Ta'yak, if you use Killing Spree just before he teleports everyone to the center of the room (right when he hits 20%) you can immune yourself from being put into a tornado. This puts you in the middle of the room instead of on either side at the start of the phase.
Doing this doesnt put your hp at risk being out've range of healers for so long?

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Old 11/08/12, 8:33 AM   #67
ghostwood
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Shadow Council
So now that weve been raiding for awhile, what is everyone thoughts on top rogue dps specs. Combat for cleave fights and assassination for single target? I Swapped to assassination on Garajal from combat(which is my normal spec) and it seemed to up my dps about 5k. Whats everyone else finding?

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Old 11/08/12, 11:43 AM   #68
lacslyer
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by EastonS View Post
Doing this doesnt put your hp at risk being out've range of healers for so long?
I've only done it on a few attempts in 10 man normal and LFR, but was able to do it consistently. So I'm not sure how much it'd hurt doing it in 25 man.

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Old 11/08/12, 2:29 PM   #69
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
Originally Posted by ghostwood View Post
So now that weve been raiding for awhile, what is everyone thoughts on top rogue dps specs. Combat for cleave fights and assassination for single target? I Swapped to assassination on Garajal from combat(which is my normal spec) and it seemed to up my dps about 5k. Whats everyone else finding?
I think its a little more subtle than that, overall. I think in pure sustained DPS, the specs are actually pretty close - Assassination may have a lead, but its not particularly large. While on a fight of sufficient length Assassination probably has a nontrivial advantage, the practical reality of typical raid fights is that the answer most often comes down to whether Combat was able to squeeze a 5th AR+SB in, and whether Assassination makes it to their 4th Vendetta + 3rd SB (or whatever, depending on the exact fight length). Combat's damage is bursty, so the exact number of times it gets its cooldowns is a major factor in how good its going to be. This is also why Combat tends to jump out to a lead at the beginning of a fight, while Assassination will provide more consistent DPS throughout the fight and gradually overtake Combat, particularly once Execute range hits.

Hence: in the Patchwerk scenario, the winner likely comes down to fight length - more likely favoring Assassination, but not always and not by a large margin. However, Patchwerk fights basically don't exist anymore - the closest you find is Gara'jal, where, indeed, Assassination has a narrow edge. In practice, figuring out which spec if favored is more often a question of their secondary benefits: Combat wins on Stone Guards because of its cleave, while Assassination wins on Feng because of its superior AoE. If an execute is helpful, Assassination holds an edge; if burst damage is more important, that favors Combat. In most cases, the winner is a question of when you need damage on what more than anything else.

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Old 11/09/12, 3:28 PM   #70
Vigilate
Glass Joe
 
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Human Rogue
 
Turalyon
For those doing serious attempts on Heroic Imperial Vizier Zor'lok at the moment and don't want to suffer durability damage when your raid has to wipe when the boss goes left instead of right at the start, Song of the Empress does not affect players who are in stealth. So, merely use Vanish outside of the gas when the boss goes left instead instead of right and wait for the raid to die.

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Old 11/10/12, 1:42 PM   #71
Draigars
Glass Joe
 
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Undead Rogue
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Originally Posted by ghostwood View Post
So now that weve been raiding for awhile, what is everyone thoughts on top rogue dps specs. Combat for cleave fights and assassination for single target? I Swapped to assassination on Garajal from combat(which is my normal spec) and it seemed to up my dps about 5k. Whats everyone else finding?
To expand a bit Aldriana words, on the practical side, the most important thing to consider on an encounter that doesn't favor one or the other (ie. cleave or important execute phase, Spirit Kings are by the way an interesting fight as both matter) is your weapons. As you can see with the stat weights, be it EJ's EP or SimC ones, weapons' DPS form the core of your DPS.
Subtlities such as the exact fight duration come mostly if your weapons, and especially your MH, have the same iLvl.

For those doing serious attempts on Heroic Imperial Vizier Zor'lok at the moment and don't want to suffer durability damage when your raid has to wipe when the boss goes left instead of right at the start, Song of the Empress does not affect players who are in stealth. So, merely use Vanish outside of the gas when the boss goes left instead instead of right and wait for the raid to die.
You don't even need to vanish, if you don't get out of stealth, you won't suffer any damage from Song.

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Old 11/10/12, 4:39 PM   #72
Seliathan
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Rogue
 
Kel'Thuzad (EU)
Garalon Combat (among other classes) Hotfix

With regard to all raid difficulties, after further testing the encounter, we realized that certain abilities were having unintended effects. Blade Flurry, Inferno Blast and Sweeping Strikes were doing double damage to Garalon's body while attacking his legs, which was not intended. We are currently implementing a hotfix, which should take effect after realms are restarted, that will cause these abilities to do normal damage to the body while continuing to do double damage to the legs.
Source

Guess they just realized that "duplicate the damage to a second target" actually means duplicate, which apparently wasn't intended. Combat is still going to be the go to spec for the fight, but not by that much.

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Old 11/10/12, 5:05 PM   #73
fierydemise
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Rogue
 
Shadowmoon
Based on some quick testing on a frost mage and his pet it looks like bf mirroring applies before target damage modifiers.

Using prey on the weak to put a 10% damage buff on the mage BFing onto his pet.

SS without stun: 3053
SS with stun 3356
BF without stun 1336
BF with stun 1336

EDIT: Full blue post explanation of changes.
Sort of, and something we should take this opportunity to clarify. In Cataclysm, cleave-type mechanics double-dipped on damage bonuses, but we changed that universally in Patch 5.0 on a fundamental level. If you go back to Halfus or Wind Lord Mel'jarak, you'll find that cleave effects that derive their damage from the initial hit now only award the bonus damage on the target that is receiving increased damage.

Note that this works both ways. If you Sinister Strike a target that has a 50% damage reduction effect on it, your Blade Flurry will still do full damage to a secondary target, which previously would not have been the case.

The pending hotfix addresses a bug specific to the Garalon encounter which cause these new rules to not apply. Abilities that can hit a leg and the body simultaneously will still be extremely effective on the boss.

Last edited by fierydemise : 11/10/12 at 5:50 PM.

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Old 11/10/12, 6:42 PM   #74
Seliathan
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Rogue
 
Kel'Thuzad (EU)
Good to know. I didn't pay close attention to all the changed (documented and undocumented) mechanics, but was that mentioned anywhere before? Although this might be too off-topic for the thread, so feel free to pm me.

Wondering whether combat is still the number one choice for Garalon now, having just the "usual" additional BF damage.
As combat I lost out on quite alot of combopoints thanks to frequent target-swapping and being unable to take Versatility instead of Anticipation. This might have been bad play on my part, but it's hardly avoidable to full extent.
As Assassination however, one should not only do higher DPS on the legs themselves but also be able to run rupture on the boss while travelling to another leg, not to mention the venomous wounds energy refund (if it works properly - anyone got proof that it does?). This, combined with the fact that versatility might actually be a dps increase here, could turn the tides - or am I missing something/underestimating the part BF plays at this encounter? Talking mostly about heroic, where the majority of raids send their melee on leg-duty all fight long.

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Old 11/10/12, 6:57 PM   #75
Pathal
Don Flamenco
 
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Worgen Rogue
 
Doomhammer
Combat. Hands down.

Assassination's single target lead is greatly exaggerated. Multidotting with Rupture+VW+DP is minor in comparison to BF. Both specs should at least be auto attacking the boss while they run from leg to leg. Combat has quicker Redirects with restless blades.

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