Mists mechanics testing
 

As usual, before building models for stats/gear/talents we need to figure the mehanics behind new spells or interactions that have changed. So, in the spirit of the thread we had prior to cataclysm, I've compiled this rough pass at what needs to be tested.

Some of the most involved testing we did back then has been answered in the Class Balance Analysis thread (official forums). We also have some ground covered: by the All Specs Thread, or through other independeint testers. However, it's very likely that I've forgotten some things, so be my guest to bring it up. Also, while I'm keeping a close eye on what's been discovered, I may have missed a couple: bring those up too.

Please note that you need to provide sufficient evidence to back up your claims if you try to answer any of these questions. As a cautionary measure, if you're testing lvl85 stuff, please state if you're playing bata or ptr: they should be the same, but some things may not be fully or correctly implemented on any af the two.

1. What is the damage formula for Venomous Wounds? Particularly the base damage and AP percentage; is its AP percentage level dependent?
2. We were told that poisons won't be ppm this time round; does the instant portion of DP hold up to this?
3. Is the dual weild hit penalty still 19%?
4. Are glancing blows behaving the same as in cata (24% chance, 25% reduction)?
5. How do spell damage procs (like No'Kaled) behave with the new hit/crit mechanics? Do they proc at the spell hit rate? Do they crit at the spell crit rate?
6. What is the proc behaviour of Dancing Steel? proc rate, icd, stack/refresh logic when using two, etc
7. What is the proc behaviour of Windsong? Same questions, but also whether different stat procs can overwrite old ones. Also: is it anything like Hurricane?
8. What is the proc behaviour of Elemental Force? does Master Poisoner have an effect on it? what about Bandit's Guile? does it proc/crit as a spell or as a melee ability? does it scale with gear? do poisons, bleeds ticks or debuff application trigger it? if so, what's the proc rate for those?
9. 10. 11. 12. (Rearanged in 40.)
13. Is revealing Strike still not normalized?
14. What abilities does Blade Flurry copy? Check Shadow Blades particularly, but evidence of others is welcomed.
15. What abilities benefit from Bandit's Guile? Check Rupture particularly, but evidence of others is welcomed.
16. Is the dot from hemo exhibiting the Cata mechanics aside from the crit double pass (it can't crit now)? On live it overwrites itself and double-passes both crit and Sanguinary Vein
17. Do the bleeds that trigger Sanguinary Vein get the 25% benefit?
18. How does Rupture stack with Sanguinary Vein? does it get the full 50% and 25% bonus? if so, do they stack additively or multiplicatively?
19. Similarly, how do Sanguinary Vein and Executioner stack?
20. Can we asume Potent Poisons stacks additively? (I don't think this can be answered at the moment)
21. How does the new 'refresh' mechanic work for Envenom? Do you get to clip it for more than 1sec and still get it extended?
22. What about Revealing Strike? (I don't really know why that was included but I guess it's worth investigating)
23. What is the behaviour of Leeching Poison? Which spells can poison the target and which ones the heal? (from the wording I'd asume white swings can't proc the heal)
24. Does Blade Flurry proc Leeching Poison?
25. What is the proc behaviour of Swordguard Embroidery?
26. What is the damage range and the swing timer of Ghost Iron Dragonling? does it inherit any of the master's stats?
27. What is the general behaviour of Shado-Pan Dragon Gun?
28. What is the proc behaviour of these items (wowhead lists the proc chance for all trinkets; the icd may need some testing):
28a. Zen Alchemist Stone
28b. Windswept Pages
28c. Searing Words
28d. Relic of Xuen
28e. Bottle of Infinite Stars
28f. Terror in the Mists
28g. The Gloaming Blade
29. How does the proc rate of Combat Potency scale with weapon speed?
30. Do formerly-ranged attacks (Fok/Shuriken Toss/Deadly Throw/Throw) proc poisons?
31. What is the behaviour of the dot from Crimson Tempest?
32. Do dodged/missed Envenoms still trigger the envenom buff?
33. How does the Blade Flurry energy penalty stack with Adrenaline Rush/Vitality? During Cata we tested AR stacks additively with Vitality and the sum multiplicatively with haste.
34. How much crit reduction do bosses have?
35. 36. 37. 38. 39. (Rearanged in 40.)
40. What is the behaviour of Shadow Blades (rearanged from questions 9, 10, 11, 12, 35, 36, 37 ,38, 39)
40a. Does every swing during Shadow Blades produce a Shadow Blades proc? If not, what's its proc rate?
40b. Is any other abilily, like Killing Spree, proccing Shadow Blades?
40c. How does Shadow Blades scale with weapon damage? Also, is Shadow Blades normalized?
40d. What can proc off of Shadow Blades? Check particularly Poisons, Combat Potency and Main Gauche, but evidence of others is welcomed.
40e. Does Garrote get additional combo points during Shadow Blades?
40f. Does Shadow Blades stack with Seal Fate? That is: does a critical mutilate during Shadow Blades get 4 combo
40g. What combat table does Shadow Blades folllow? that is: can it be dodged/parried? can it glance?
41. How does Premeditation interact with Anticipation?
42. What is the behaviour of Slice and Dice under the new 'dot refresh' mechanics?
43. Does Killing Spree proc Main Gauche?
44. Is the spell triggering Find Weakness still not getting the Find Weakness buff?
45. We were told here that poisons would use melee hit mechanics. Did this actually happen, and if so, what does it actually mean? Raised by: Aldriana.
46. Does Killing Spree always hit?. I've seen reports of it not being dodged/missed, so it's probably wise to test it.
47. How do trinket's procs/uses scale in Challenge Mode?
48. How is the dot damage from Crimson Tempest calculated? also: what is it behaviour (tick spacing, refresh logic)?

Partially answered
6. Dancing Steel appears to be 1ppm with no ICD. Refreshes when procced while a proc is active. Stacking/refresh behaviour when weilding two is not confirmed. Credit: Kaowa
7. Windsong is a 3ppm1ppm proc with 1''icd that randomly chooses a stat. Different stats don't overwirte themselves; however, same stats do overwrite themselves (even if procced from different weapons); this means: you can have up to 3 different buffs at a time. Known triggers: melee swings and strikes. Credit: Maintankadin, shadowboy813
8. Elemental force procs off weapon attakcs with a 1ppm5ppm rate and 0.1''icd; it misses/crits at your spell miss/crit rate. The damage stacks with master poisonser and tricks of the trade (bandit's guile not tested; as a reminder Avalanche didn't). It doesn't stack with physical vulnerabilities and doesn't seem to scale with gear. No testing when weilding two has been done. Only confirmed triggers are melee abilities; poisons, bleeds, debuff application, etc. need testing.Credit: shadowboy, Maintankadin
15. Bandit's guile enhances all melee swings and strikes (no confirmation on poisons still). It also applies to dots at the time they're casted: it won't update as new stages of bandit's guile are acquired. Credit: Sakuratei
23. Strikes, spells and swings proc the healing component; dot ticks and applications do not. It still heals for 10% of white damage during Shadow Blades. Credit: Sakuratei
40b. Only white swings deal shadow damage during Shadow Blades + Killing Spree. Other combiantions may need further testing. Credit: Sakuratei


Answered
1. The damage formula for Venomous Wounds is (748 + .168 * AP) at lvl90 and (675 + .168 * AP) at lvl85, suggesting that the AP scaling is not level dependent (and fitting with the dcb extract). Master Poisoner, Assassasin Resolve and mastery all apply multiplicatively to that. Credit: Torima
2. Deadly Poison has a flat 30% proc chance (plus 20 with improved poisons in assassination specs) regardless of weapon choice. Credit: Torima
3. There is no known evidence that the dual weild miss chance has changed. Credit: Sakuratei, Pathal
4. There is no known evidence that glancing behaviour has changed. Credit: Sakuratei, Pathal
13. RvS is still not normalized. Credit: shadowboy813
14. Blade Flurry can copy all melee swings and strikes. As usual, it doesn't copy trinket procs, bleeds or poisons but it will, notably, copy Shadow Blades. Credit: Pathal, Sakuratei
17. Bleeds triggering Sanguinary Vein get the 25% bonus. Credit: Pathal
18. Rupture gets modified by 1.25 * 1.5 from Sanguinary Vein. Credit: Pathal
19. Sanguinary Vein and Executioner stack multiplicatively. Credit: Pathal
24. Blade Flurry does not poison nor proc healing ticks off of neither the main or off-target. Credit: Sakuratei
21. Envenom has a 1'' interval when behaving like a dot. Credit: Pathal
22. Revealing strike has a 3'' interval when behaving like a dot. Credit: Pathal
28b. Windswept Pages: 15% chance on direct white/melee/ranged/harmful-spell landing, 65 sec ICD.
28c. Searing Words: 45% chance on direct white/melee/ranged/harmful-spell crit, 85 sec ICD.
28d. Relic of Xuen has a 20% proc chance (datamined) and a 55'' icd. It only procs on critical swings and strikes. Credit: Arumil, aggixx.
28f. Terror in the Mists: 15% chance on direct white/melee/ranged/harmful-spell landing, 105 sec ICD.
29. Combat Potency’s proc chance works as follows: Can be triggered by white offhand attack and main gauche hits (must land successfully). The proc chance is 20% for Main Gauche hits, and [20*OffhandWeaponSpeed/1.4]% for white offhand attacks.
30. Throw doesn't seem to proc poisons. FoK, Shuriken Toss and Deadly Throw do proc poisons, behaving like a normal AP strike. Credit: Sakuratei
31. The Crimson Tempest bleed overwrites itself unless cast when 3'' remain, in which case it extends the new duration. Credit: Sakuratei
32. Players are getting the Envenom buff form Envenoms that don't connect. Credit: Torima, Athariel
33. Energy regen in the character sheet is reliable; all energy modifiers stack multiplicatively with the Base plus Haste-rengen. Credit: Athariel
34. The crit reduction is 1% per level difference (3% against a boss) for both spell and melee abilities.
40a. Shadow Blades replaces aa swings without incurring in any kind of timer reset. Credit: Isebel
40d. Shadow Blades can proc Poisons, Combat Potency and Main Gauche. Credit: Sakuratei, Isebel
40e. Garrote does produce an additional combo point during Shadow Blades. Credit: Isebel
40f. Shadow Blades does stack with Seal Fate. Credit: Isebel
40g. Shadow Blades behaves like a strike: it can be parried/dodged but it doens't glance. Credit: Isebel 1, 2
41. Premeditation doesn't add Anticipation charges. If used at 4cp, the rogue gets the 5th cp but it won't overflow to the first charge of Anticipation. Credit: shadowboy813
42. SnD has a 2'' interval when behaving like a dot, agreeing with the game files. Credit: shadowboy813
43. Killing Spree can proc Main Gauche. Credit: Isebel
44. The Ambush triggering Find Weakness is still not benefiting from Find Weakness. Credit: Isebel
45. Poisons, much like a hunter's sting or a paladin's consecration, are on the mêlée hit table and crit at the mêlée crit rate: 2 rolls after trigger (hit/miss and crit/non-crit). This means they'll miss 7.5% of the time (against a boss), they can't glance or be dodged/parried/blocked. There is a common misconception floating around several forums stating that poisons could still be on the spell hit table (cap at 15%); one would be 'poison capped' if both melee and expertise capped (7.5 + 7.5 = 15); while it's true that such a player would be spell capped (since expertise negates spell miss now), the statement about poisons is not: expertise has no bearing on poisons; a mêlée hit capped rogue with no expertise will see all her poisons connect. Credit: multiple; this post by Docrev has the first conclusive testing that I'm aware of.
48. Unlike what the tooltip suggests (confirmed it's not a bug; tooltip will get updated), each of the 6 ticks after a Crimson Tempest deal 40% of the strike damage (for a total of 240%). It appears to double-dip Sanguinary Vein and Executioner. Ticks at 2'' intervals and has the new refresh logic (if refreshed before the last tick, it recalculates damage and one tick). Credit: shadowboy813, Athariel

3(partial). FoK, Shuriken Toss and Deadly Throw proc poisons, Throw does not.

10(partial). Killing Spree does not deal Shadow damage during Shadow Blades, and does not deal additional damage. White attacks during Killing Spree benefit from Shadow Blades.

23(partial). Auto attacks do proc Leeching Poison healing. Sinister Strike, Revealing Strike, Killing Spree and Main Gauche proc Leeching Poison healing. Ticks or application of Rupture and Deadly Poison do not trigger Leeching Poison healing. Crimson Tempest initial hit procs healing, DoT ticks do not. Leeching Poison healing still heals for 10% of white hit damage during Shadow Blades.

24. Blade Flurry does not interact with Leeching Poison at all. Blade Flurry does not apply Leeching Poison to the secondary target, nor does it trigger healing from the secondary target when there is Leeching Poison on it. Blade Flurry does not trigger extra healing when hitting a secondary target when the main target has Leeching Poison, or if both targets have Leching Poison.

Bonus: The bleed DoT from Crimson Tempest does not stack up Ignite style, so casting Crimson Tempest while the bleed is already up may prove unoptimal. Refreshing the DoT when it has less than 3 seconds left will extend the new duration to match the amount of ticks, much like other over-time effects.

3./4.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

45 minute log against Raider's Training Dummy, autoattacks only, no hit rating. Interesting note is that the miss rates for white hits and main gauches are 25%~ and 6% respectively, which should be the values against a level 92 target. Most likely cause is if the training dummy has a hidden incorrect level.

Glancing Blow values show chance rate at 25,6% (inaccuracy probably cause of relatively low sample value, could also be related to the miss rate descripancy above) and damage reduction at 26%.

Obviously not confirming data, but a report to cross-reference with other reports.

Well, taking in cosideration only the white swings: you missed 714 of 2834 swings, so we have 95% confidence that the miss rate is between .2363 and .2683. I wouldn't rule out the bugged dummies (specially since the challenge mode bosses used to be 92, so they could be messing with that) but I would think the sample is not big enough yet.

Update: forgot to mention that the paperdoll can help with this. In live it shows both the white miss rate and the special miss rate; if you have low enough hit rating, you can simply do white_miss - special_miss = dw_miss

I would think glancing reduction is better tested with low damage range weapons (aka dirks and minimum AP).

Log1: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Log2: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Log3: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Every log was at, or close to the hit and expertise cap.

3) Going off a decent size of white swings, it seems to be the same. The character window tooltip seems to agree. (via Log1&3)
4) Looks the same still. 4203/(1-.26) is almost equal to 5691.9. (via Log1)
14) Not copying Heroic Vial, nor FOK, nor poisons. Still works on MG, white swings, Evisc, SS & RvS, and oddly the initial damage from Crimson Tempest (not the bleed). CT has some odd behavior about it. I think it's copying every single initial CT hit, but I'm not sure. Might be worth investigating. Toggling BF just during CT should be a DPS gain, no clue if keeping it up for the entire AOE phase would be best though.
17) CT most definitely does. The dots are hitting for 25% more than they would if it weren't. Easy to verify.
21) Game files say it has a 1s interval. If we use Envenom while there is .99s remaining, the duration of the buff would be whatever it would be plus .99s. That is, a 5CP Env would last 6.99s in that scenario.
22) Game files say it has a 3s interval. So we can gain up to 2.99s for the next application. HOWEVER, I don't think this should ever be an issue, as I'm pretty sure that combat rogues should briefly pool right before applying RvS when the current one falls off.
24) No.

I assume Rupture gains multiplicatively from SV (dmg*1.5*1.25) but I haven't tested it yet.

Also, crit suppression is 1% per level, and implied to be for both physical and spell attacks. Beta Class Balance Analysis - MMO-Champion BlueTracker

Dancing Steel
 

Here's a 45 minute autoattack log on a boss dummy wearing nothing but a 2.6 speed sword with Dancing Steel. I had no hit or haste rating, but I'm human so the 1% expertise for using a sword applies.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

6. (partial) There is no icd on the proc and the proc can refresh itself. With the default 10% haste, my attack speed was 2.36. There were 35 procs (including refreshes) on 678 hits, 274 glancing blows, 58 dodges, and 90 misses.

As to what Pathal said about the 1 second envenom period, it did apply that way while testing increasing the next duration with the time left in between that period and will even if it is a miss.

952 successful melee attacks
35 procs

95% confidence for a 3.68 +/- 1.21% proc chance (or 0.94+/-0.30 ppm)
Odds are this one will be a 1ppm proc, but some more tests (with different weapon speeds) would help to pin it down.
Also note that the guys over at Maintankadin have some values for Windsong and Elemental Force (3ppm both).

6) (Partial) Here's a 45 Minute run wielding only a 1.8 dagger with Dancing Steel. Attack Speed was 1.63. There were 60 procs (including refreshes) on 1182 hits, 466 glancing blows, 153 dodges, and 156 misses.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

1648 successful melee attacks with 60 procs is a 3.64% +/- 0.95% proc chance. Starting to look like it might not be ppm and just be a flat ~3.5% proc rate. I'll try to get a few more hours of logs only wielding a dagger.

Regarding dual wielding, the weapons will proc individual buffs, so it does stack. I assume they will refresh independently, but I'll need to run a longer log to prove it.

Update:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

4066 successful melee attacks, 109 procs. Implies a proc rate of 2.68% +/- 0.47%. This would be 0.98 ppm +/- 0.17.

Combined with the earlier data: 5714 attacks, 169 procs, 2.96% +/- 0.43% or 1.08 +/- 0.16 ppm.

Has anyone checked if Rupture was also added to the list of abilities that last longer based on the remaining time of the buff that's already up (if it is) with Envenom and RvS? I know they let us overwrite with weaker ones now.

Tested and confirmed, Rupture behaves the same way (it adds the time until next damage tick to the new duration).

Edit: 15. Sinister Strike, Revealing Strike, Killing Spree , Eviscerate, Deadly Throw, Shuriken Toss and Crimson Tempest (initial) all benefit from Bandit's Guile. Rupture and Crimson Tempest DoT damage does benefit from Bandit's Guile upon application, but the damage doesn't update dynamically when a new Guile stage is reached (most likely an effect of Bandit's Guile being a self buff now rather than tied to the target, as it is known that DoT's take snapshots of the char on cast, and only update dynamically from debuffs on the target).

Edit 2: 14 (partial). Blade Flurry copies the full damage from Shadow Blades to the second target, but lists the damage done as physical.

Edit 3: 23 (partial). Sinister Strike, Eviscerate, Revealing Strike and Crimson Tempest can proc Leeching Poison to apply on the target (in addition to the ranged attacks covered in 3.). Rupture and Gouge do not appear to trigger poison applications (probably because they are weapon strikes that do not directly deal damage). Additionally, Sinister Strike and Revealing Strike can proc Main Gauche, while finishers do not seem able to.

32. Do dodged/missed Envenoms still trigger the envenom buff?

Yes; parried, missed and dodged Envenoms do indeed trigger the Envenom buff.

33. How does the Blade Flurry energy penalty stack with Adrenaline Rush/Vitality? During Cata we tested AR stacks additively with Vitality and the sum multiplicatively with haste.

Partial:

I had the following numbers without any pieces of gear on:
Default: 12
AR: 24
BF: 8,4
AR+BF: 16,8

and with gear equipped (19,09% or 2445 rating at lvl 85)
Default: 14,29
AR: 28,58
BF: 10
AR+BF: 20

These numbers were taken from the ingame character sheet, and might not match actual energy regen numbers. However, if we follow the character sheet for a moment we can see that the following formula matches the AR+BF scenario;

(BaseRegen (10) + GearHaste (1.909) ) * Vitality (1.2) * AR (2) * BF (1-0.3) = 20,00712

Which hints to that the Cataclysm energy regen model has indeed changed, and they are all multiplicative with one another. Further testing to see if actual energy regen matches the character sheet is needed, though.

18) Looks like it stacks multiplicatively, and if I were to guess the implementation based on some vague spell data, I would say they just slap a 50% modifier on Rupture when the SV passive is activated, not when the bleed is triggered.

36.31% Mastery (2462 rating)
18.09% Crit (3453 rating)
29773 AP
hits for ~5717

Tooltip says 38475 over 12 ticks damage for a 5CP rupture (~5610 normal ticks), but that doesn't line up. The calc below fits better, but is still a few points off (mastery rounding error? trunkation bug?).
lvl90 scale mod = 1246.298583984375
tick_damage = (.185*1246.3 + .026*1246.3 * 5 + .062 * 29773) *1.25*1.5*1.3631 = ~5720

The formula expects ticks a point or two of damage higher than what combat deals too. Probably some minor rounding bug in the info we have.

Rounding the base modifiers to (231 + 32 * 5 + 0.062 * 29773) * (1.25 * 1.3631 * 1.5) = 5717.16 seems to agree pretty well with your 5717-5718 ticks. It's enough proof in my book, but feel free to test with different AP/mastery to double check.

However, note that this is somewhat unexpected: in the past, passive spells that enhanced abilities separatedly (Executioner only enhancing finishers, or Sanguinary Vein's 50% only applying to rupture) used to stack additively. Passives increasing all damage or a kind of damage (all bleeds, for instance) and activated buffs (RvS) used to stack multiplicatively with the sum of the others. I guess, since half of Sanguinary Vein (the 25%) does enhance all damage, this one passive is a bit different.

Edit: I find it odd that the hemo bleed is not included in the Sanguinary Vein check. Not gamebreaking but perrhaps it's worth checking.

16601 AP
27.93% mastery (785 rating)
(231 + 32 * 5 + .062 * 16601) *1.25*1.5*1.2793 = 3406.76 (matches!)

Also, they removed Hemo from SV because they wanted to force Sub into using rupture. Then they buffed rupture because they realized it hit for next to nothing and left hemo off the list of bleeds. They don't seem too interested in adding it back judging by the number of times it has been brought up on the beta forums, so I'm assuming it's going to stay this way until 5.0.6 at the earliest.

Hah, I just noticed you rearranged calcs/rogue/__init__.py and forced rounding.