Rogue Simple Questions: Mists Edition - Page 3

dizzlex · 09/23/12, 8:14 PM

Originally Posted by Dolors

Is troll still the best Horde race when considering DPS min/maxing or has it changed to pandaren/undead?

Very situational. It is possible that the Pandaren food racial will be the best for min/maxing straight patchwork fights, but fights with burn phases tend to favor troll for berserking. If the boss is considered a "beast" then hands down, troll is the best because of Beast Slaying

With that said, fights where extra movement come in handy actually favor goblin with rocket jump to increase overall uptime, but with shadowstep, prep, burst of speed, being available to anyone, this may be of little benefit.

Undead's new Touch of the Grave is an interesting, "set it and forget it" racial

Did some SimC work on racials @ lvl 85.

These results came from my rogue: Dizzlex on Mal'ganis server in bis gear and Assassination spec. Since we are using daggers, the axe expertise bonus doesn't get added. This is something to keep in mind, moving forward into MOP when axes and fist weapons may be more readily available.

Troll: 65569 dps. If Beast Slaying then 68847 dps
Goblin: 65100 dps
Undead: 65046 dps with exactly 258dps from touch of the grave.
Orc: 65332 dps
Pandaren: 65434 dps

Went ahead and ran it at lvl 85 in my bis gear with panda food and buff and nothing changes. Troll is still the best by a large margin. It seems like the berserking actually makes better usage of the actual stat increase than any other racial, even when you consider that pandas get double. Troll>panda>orc>blood elf>goblin>undead

blood elf, goblin, undead are all within 100 dps of each other out of roughly 70k.

Did the same thing for lvl 90 with my gear, and the numbers were way low because hit and such aren't scaled to 90 like they should be, but the numbers are still fairly accurate. Troll>panda>orc>blood elf>goblin>undead

I will run this again once I hit 90 to make sure.

With this said, pandas are cool and shiny and not far behind in damage.

Docrev · 09/23/12, 9:20 PM

They replaced underwater breathing with Touch of the Grave, so unlike previously, the Forsaken actually get to have a DPS racial. Not overly sure how it scales, though.

Weather · 09/24/12, 4:18 AM

I apologize if this has been addressed already, but has there been any calculation what weapon enchant gives most DPS and how that dps is distributed over time regarding Elemental Force and Dancing Steel?

Cubito · 09/27/12, 1:48 AM

Originally Posted by dizzlex

Very situational. It is possible that the Pandaren food racial will be the best for min/maxing straight patchwork fights, but fights with burn phases tend to favor troll for berserking. If the boss is considered a "beast" then hands down, troll is the best because of Beast Slaying

With that said, fights where extra movement come in handy actually favor goblin with rocket jump to increase overall uptime, but with shadowstep, prep, burst of speed, being available to anyone, this may be of little benefit.

Undead's new Touch of the Grave is an interesting, "set it and forget it" racial

Did some SimC work on racials @ lvl 85.

These results came from my rogue: Dizzlex on Mal'ganis server in bis gear and Assassination spec. Since we are using daggers, the axe expertise bonus doesn't get added. This is something to keep in mind, moving forward into MOP when axes and fist weapons may be more readily available.

Troll: 65569 dps. If Beast Slaying then 68847 dps
Goblin: 65100 dps
Undead: 65046 dps with exactly 258dps from touch of the grave.
Orc: 65332 dps
Pandaren: 65434 dps

Went ahead and ran it at lvl 85 in my bis gear with panda food and buff and nothing changes. Troll is still the best by a large margin. It seems like the berserking actually makes better usage of the actual stat increase than any other racial, even when you consider that pandas get double. Troll>panda>orc>blood elf>goblin>undead

blood elf, goblin, undead are all within 100 dps of each other out of roughly 70k.

Did the same thing for lvl 90 with my gear, and the numbers were way low because hit and such aren't scaled to 90 like they should be, but the numbers are still fairly accurate. Troll>panda>orc>blood elf>goblin>undead

I will run this again once I hit 90 to make sure.

With this said, pandas are cool and shiny and not far behind in damage.

Hi

Someone can confirm this race ranks at the 90 ?
Or there is a spreedsheet to simulate ?

Thanks

Enu · 09/28/12, 8:56 AM

Hello as I am really confused about current situation when it comes to Assassination EP I came here asking isn't the first thing we should aim to achieve 7.5% Expertise rating and Hit rating so we cover the poison cap?.. at least that is what I was reading on others rogues blogs.

That is why I am confused how come that Mastery still comes in-front of Expertise EP wise based on Assassination forum. Does that means we can disregard Expertise cap and just go with Mastery stacking?

Rfeann · 09/28/12, 1:07 PM

The "how come" is pretty straightforward: The way the smartfolk have modeled it thus far, it looks like the poison damage increase granted by mastery is simply worth more than the dodge/miss reduction granted by expertise. They're both important, it's just that one appears to shake out to be a little more important than the other right now.

There may still be occasions when you end up reforging into expertise. For instance, if you're at the hit cap and a piece of gear has crit and mastery on it, you'll likely be reforging that crit into expertise.

Let this be a lesson, kids: Blogs and forum posts are just blogs and forum posts. Conjecture is conjecture. Math is math.

Hamstring · 09/29/12, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Cubito

Hi

Someone can confirm this race ranks at the 90 ?
Or there is a spreedsheet to simulate ?

Thanks

Also, how do the alliance races stack up in comparison?

Cheers.

Acreus · 10/01/12, 9:38 PM

I was curious, is it better to have a slow offhand or a fast offhand as a subtlety rogue at 90?

Wytryszek · 10/02/12, 6:29 AM

Does anybody has an insight as to at which point it is worth it to break the 4xT13 HC set? And a similar question about when to replace the Fangs?

dizzlex · 10/02/12, 7:02 AM

I am simming the legendary daggers as more than 1000 dps better than double 463 daggers in Assassination spec. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

Edit: You can delete this post if you want, I went ahead and expand on my information in the post below.

dizzlex · 10/02/12, 7:03 AM

Originally Posted by Acreus

I was curious, is it better to have a slow offhand or a fast offhand as a subtlety rogue at 90?

There is no such thing as a "slow" or "fast" dagger speed anymore. All daggers have been normalized to 1.8 speed with the exception of the level 80 Kaluak rep dagger that is 1.7.

Originally Posted by Cubito

Hi

Someone can confirm this race ranks at the 90 ?
Or there is a spreedsheet to simulate ?

Thanks

In regard to the question above about racials for Alliance and Horde, if you give me a day or two I will run some numbers and get back with an answer. I will update this post with information when I have it.

Originally Posted by Wytryszek

Does anybody has an insight as to at which point it is worth it to break the 4xT13 HC set? And a similar question about when to replace the Fangs?

Can you please be more specific with the information you are wanting to know. What spec are you referring to? In general just wait until you can buy the 450ilvl pvp or justice gear at 90 and that should sufficiently replace the t13. You "could" do it sooner, but to try and simcraft every possible combination of leveling gear is incredibly time consuming, nearly impossible, and most importantly, pointless.

As for the daggers...

Assassination: According to my simulation numbers and backed up by in game testing, not until you have double 463ilvl daggers or better.
Combat: Any combination of 450 Weapons should be fine as long as you are using at least a 2.6 speed main hand. Optimally you would want both weapons to be slow, but the difference is minimal. You won't start seeing any real difference in damage until you get at least one 463 weapon since the gain from legendaries to 450 weapons is less than .001%
Subtlety: Same situation as Assassination, it's not worth the switch until you can equip dual 463 daggers.

We complained about not being able to use our legendaries for very long but it seems we may be able to get more use out of them than we thought.

Pathal · 10/02/12, 8:20 AM

SimC doesn't factor in the proc rate decay, if that's what you're relying off of.

Wytryszek · 10/02/12, 8:55 AM

Originally Posted by dizzlex

Can you please be more specific with the information you are wanting to know. What spec are you referring to? In general just wait until you can buy the 450ilvl pvp or justice gear at 90 and that should sufficiently replace the t13.

As far as I understand (just about to ding 90 myself) I can't just get 450ilvl justice gear right away, because it's locked behind some reputation grind. So I expect to collect the pieces gradually one by one from dungeons.
The better way to put my question would be probably: how many 450/463 gear pieces should I have to start breaking down the 4xT13 hc set bonus?
And thank you for the answer about daggers - very interesting.

Edit: OK, scratch my question: I just read the news:
"We've just applied a hotfix that removes the faction requirements for Justice gear."

Azzuric · 10/02/12, 12:36 PM

The 450 gear doesent need reputation anymore.

edit: slow reply

Acreus · 10/02/12, 1:51 PM

No no no, what I'm asking is, should Subtlety be dual-wielding daggers, or does dagger/2.6 speed put out more DPS?