Assassination from the Mists - Page 11

Pathal · 11/27/12, 2:06 AM

The only thing that happened to Seal Fate was a nerf to CP generation from Shuriken Toss.

So... it changes almost nothing.

Wally1169 · 11/27/12, 7:32 AM

Originally Posted by Aldriana

In general we try to avoid "BIS with conditions" lists, because, fundamentally, everyone has different restrictions. "Full BIS" is about the only gear set that any significant number of rogues accumulate at - other than that, everyone has their own limitations on what they can reasonably expect to kill - some people can only do LFR, some people do LFR and a little bit of raiding, some people can afford a Relic of Xuen while others can't, and so on. And all these little decisions may shift what winds up being optimal. So rather than trying to customize a list for every individual player's needs, we generally ask that you figure it out for yourself, using EP, calculators, and whatever other tools may be available.

The problem I'm having with mathing it out myself is, as I mentioned, the set bonuses. As Mechakisc mentioned he simply steps the suggested Full BIS down to the gear level he's willing to work at, which probably works for Normal. However, mathing out the pieces individually puts several of the non-set pieces significantly ahead of the alternative LFR pieces and I'm not sure where to factor in the set bonuses to decide if they throw the set above or below the faction gear or whatever.

So, does anyone have any thoughts on the set bonus calculations? I'm willing to do my own work myself, but I'd like some input on how to properly calculate the set bonuses. Otherwise, I suspect SimCraft might be my best bet by simply swapping out pieces and seeing what DPS comes back.

metzli · 11/27/12, 8:09 AM

The value of the set bonuses really comes down to how and how well you play the spec. For me 2 piece works out to something around a 2.2% dps buff based on the % of my dps that venomous wounds is without the set bonus (obviously give or take, just a quick and dirty 20% of 11ish%. And obviously this scales up any time we can multidot.).

The Shadow blades buff is a lot harder to model. Using my numbers it's a raw damage buff of 3.5%. But this doesnt take into account the increased CP generation. So getting a good estimate for the value of shadow blades isn't really something any spreadsheet will ever be able to do for you with any real accuracy on live bosses. It comes down to how well you manage your CP generation, whether you're always making good use of the 24 seconds of it, etc.

So essentially your best bet is to base their value on your own logs, especially since you are trying to model basically the set bonuses vs agility and secondary stats. Maybe play around with shadowcraft and try to figure out how much of stat X it takes to give you a 1% dps buff and work from there. Test to see how many Mutilates/dispatches you are doing during shadow blades and therefore how many extra CP, then try to math out what a CP is worth to you. That's at least a direction to head in with your calculations.

ghostwood · 11/27/12, 9:36 AM

so whats everyones plan initially for valor upgrades. Im thinking my daggers and trinkets. I have the darkmoon trinket and a lfr bottle of infinite stars, so they are solid trinks that can only get better. Whats everyones thoughts on this?

Fastfingaz · 11/27/12, 10:56 AM

Weapons>Trinkets>Everything else. However it should be noted that upgrading something that's not BiS is going to be crippling in the future as it takes ~2 weeks to gain the points.

Moritsume · 11/27/12, 11:08 AM

Aldriana posted in another thread explaining the likely best choices for valor upgrading.

Well, without knowing exactly how upgrading works - particularly for things with procs, like trinkets - its hard to be sure what the biggest upgrades are going to be. But as an initial assumption, it seems that the slots that provide the most benefit are the ones most likely to be worthwhile to upgrade. Under that assumption, the best slots are presumably:

1) MH Weapon
2-4) Chest, Legs, and Helm in some order.

Trinkets would generally be next on the list based purely on their direct benefit; Relic of Xuen might outperform that expectation based on its high quality relative to its ilvl (although whether it catches up to the above entries is anyone's guess). After that you get to, in some order, OH Weapon, Shoulders, Gloves, Belt, and Boots, with Rings, Amulet, Bracers, and Cloak bringing up the rear.

This is due to the natural stat budget for the chest/helm/pants. They typically have more raw stats than any other piece, so with the exception of perhaps the Darkmoon trinket they would be your best picks after your MH weapon. I'm not sure if Mutilate's dual-hand attack is enough to bump up the OH upgrade in the list Aldriana mentioned though.

Kodjin · 11/27/12, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by ghostwood

so whats everyones plan initially for valor upgrades. Im thinking my daggers and trinkets. I have the darkmoon trinket and a lfr bottle of infinite stars, so they are solid trinks that can only get better. Whats everyones thoughts on this?

For me personally, I have done the math(except for trinkets, not sure how to calculate the proc gains) and it will work out like so:

MainHand
Chest
Feet
Legs
Both rings
Head
Hands
Shoulder
Wrist
Neck
Belt
Back

(didn't include my offhand because I have had the worst luck with weapons and I still have a 463 OH dagger so it will be a free upgrade with JP)

In all reality I may not upgrade my mainhand first because it is an LFR 476 and will hopefully be replaced any day now. I have never seen a normal dagger of the Seven Stars drop from the Stone Guard even with bonus rolls :-(

Rigapples · 11/27/12, 1:20 PM

How does the new Trinket stack up against Relic of Xuen (and the others, I suppose) from the new 5.1 Faction? I havn't really seen it discussed.

Woundripper Medallion - Trinkets - Armor - Items - WowDB

ilvl: 496
1152 Agility
On use: 3838Crit for 15sec (60sec CD)

♦ Viper · 11/27/12, 1:31 PM

Originally Posted by Rigapples

How does the new Trinket stack up against Relic of Xuen (and the others, I suppose) from the new 5.1 Faction? I havn't really seen it discussed.

Woundripper Medallion - Trinkets - Armor - Items - WowDB

ilvl: 496
1152 Agility
On use: 3838Crit for 15sec (60sec CD)

Based on the EPs in the OP of this thread and assuming you use it on cooldown: 1152 * 2.72 + 3838 * (15/60) * 0.99 = 4083.3

Which is fairly low for a 496 trinket. Well below the Relic, and the only raid-drop trinket lower appears to be LFR Terror in the Mists (and Jade Bandit Figurine if that's a consideration). To be expected considering it's a pure crit effect though.

nonmagical · 11/27/12, 3:57 PM

As of the time of this writing, Rogue poisons do not seem to apply while using FoK, essentially making our AoE damage worthless. On packs where I formally did 200k+ AoE damage I now due a laughable 40k. A poster on the WoW Rogue forums also confirms this is happening to him.

Not sure if it is a bug or not. A huge, huge ninja nerf if it isn't.

Moritsume · 11/27/12, 5:01 PM

I haven't tested this bug out myself; however, given the tooltip for Fan of Knives, "This attack has a chance of applying your active poisons at their normal rate" I can't imagine it isn't a bug. Hopefully it is fixed soon.

evoslayer · 11/27/12, 5:28 PM

Bad news guys, while the DP not proccing is more noticeable on FoK, I think poison procs are actually broken for EVERY special ability

I just did a little testing

in one minute intervals on the target dummy I either auto attacked or used mutilate and rupture, i did each condition twice and used recount to count the DP procs
these were my results

With Special abilities:
32, 34 average 33
Without Special abilities:
31, 38, average 34.5

In a world where mutilate and rupture are proccing poisons the special abilities number should be MUCH MUCH higher than the number without special abilities, but instead they are almost exactly the same

Obviously 4 minutes of testing is not massively conclusive but I believe my results even with only 4 tests are statistically significant.

Pathal · 11/27/12, 5:38 PM

Just turn 90 degrees to prevent autoattacks, then get at least 50 specials in (preferably over 100).

Also, check if changing specs fixes the problem.

nonmagical · 11/27/12, 5:45 PM

Originally Posted by Pathal

Just turn 90 degrees to prevent autoattacks, then get at least 50 specials in (preferably over 100).

Also, check if changing specs fixes the problem.

Just tested this out, and indeed Mutilate is not proccing poisons. Dispatch, however, is (at least the dispatch with blindside proc). Did approximately 30 Mutilates. Rupturing did not proc any poisons, either.

Switching over to combat... Sinister Strike procs poison, as well as Revealing Strike (both proc'd poison even without MG hit). FoK, however, still does not proc poisons even as Combat.

fierydemise · 11/27/12, 5:52 PM

After 70 mutilates no poison procs. Poisons appear to be proccing correctly from dispatch and evenom however. Also on the combat side of things SS, RvS and Evis all seem to work properly.