Assassination from the Mists - Page 18

metzli · 01/24/13, 5:17 PM

300 food is expensive and goes away if you die. Berserking doesn't. Simple answer.

• Aldriana · 01/24/13, 6:41 PM

Short answer: Pandas are new in Mists, and it hasn't been worth the money to people to change. But they really are that much better, assuming you have stat food on (which in raids, is most of the time).

Nuyi · 01/25/13, 5:26 AM

I don't know if this calculation is totally correct, but it should be close enough?

425 haste rating = 1% haste
20 x 425 = 8500
10 seconds / 180 seconds = 1/18

8500 / 18 = 472,22 passive haste

472,22 x 1,02 = 481,66 EP

300 agi x 2,72 = 816 EP

snowman2050 · 01/25/13, 6:19 AM

If the above EP value for Troll racial can be confirmed and verified I will update the from page.

metzli · 01/25/13, 8:46 AM

It looks correct to me for that particular EP value of haste, and using our standard model of converting procs to static bonuses (which is not really very accurate as most of us try to line procs up with CD's).

Nuyi · 01/25/13, 9:54 AM

Yes you can obviously boost the effectiveness of such a cooldown with procs and other cooldowns.

I think the style that is used on EJ is the best though, as there is no way to predict what the realistic values will be under different circumstances. It's not just the racial that benefits from procs and other cooldowns, the agility bonus does as well. I think describing it in this format works well.

Speaker · 01/30/13, 4:56 PM

Is anyone else having the problem when in stealth and you try to open with mutilate it engages the autoattack before your mutilate goes off and you don't get the benefit from shadow focus? It is really annoying. For some reason blizzard baked the autoattack function into mutilate, even when casting it in stealth. I don't know what kind of dumb person would have okayed this change.

NTRMSSION · 01/30/13, 5:15 PM

I'm not at home and can't post the exact macro, however there is a way to put either
/stopattack [stealth]
/cast mutilate

or perhaps even
/startattack [nostealth]
/cast mutilate

I don't notice many or any of my muts missing due to white swings.

metzli · 01/30/13, 6:11 PM

I have had a similar problem, but only right after I shadowstep. Is that a factor in your issue also speaker? If so just wait a half second or so after arriving before you mash mutilate and it will not waste it.

Enzo90910 · 01/31/13, 5:11 AM

I have had the same problem immediately after a vanish. If I Mutilate too fast I don't get the energy-free move. The problem with waiting half a second is you can take damage during it and not be in stealth any more when you Mutilate. This is very annoying. I don't have a real solution atm.

Nuyi · 01/31/13, 5:51 AM

The autoattack has been part of Mutilate for ages, haven't really tried to get around it, yet if you wish to use it from stealth I would recon you create a special button for it with

/stopattack
/cast mutilate
/stopattack

You might be able to spam the button without activating ur auto attacks this way.

ManthonyChopkins · 02/05/13, 4:33 PM

I read through a couple of pages but didn't really see anything on this particular subject matter so I will query here. ShadowCraft is basically telling me to drop all expertise in favour of crit and I was a bit confused by this, because (aside from being an incredibly minor theoretical boost in dps) it really just cuts about 1k from expertise for more crit and slightly more mastery. Is this the general mode of thinking now, that expertise isn't really worth it? I have no plans to suddenly drop below 7.5% expertise but I was curious what the communal thoughts on such things were, especially since for rogues it seems ShadowCraft is usually the definitive answer when looking for tips and tricks with regards to minmaxing reforges.

Grimwolf · 02/05/13, 5:55 PM

Well, for me, I can't remember when I last worried about the expertise stat as an Assassination Rogue unless the current progression fight was standing in front of the boss. Certainly not now or even all through Cata. Missing on specials doesn't really cost much in the way of energy, and missing an Envenom actually gives you the Envenom buff for free. As assassination, we're not globally locked, so there's time to adjust after a missed mutilate and simply mutilate again without worrying about capping energy. The difference between haste (more energy, more white hits, more poison damage), crit (bigger hits, more combo points), and exp (more white hits, more poison damage) is minimal at the moment.

The important things to remember about reforging for assassination are to make sure every piece has mastery on it (And it's better to have mastery on the piece than to just reforge to it), and get hit as close to a 2550 rating as possible. After that, it's not that important to follow the herd. If you like being expertise capped that's fine. Besides, with high-end gear having so much exp on it, I don't think it's that easy to keep it down to the cap in bis type gear anyway.

Jodou · 02/05/13, 6:12 PM

Originally Posted by ManthonyChopkins

I read through a couple of pages but didn't really see anything on this particular subject matter so I will query here. ShadowCraft is basically telling me to drop all expertise in favour of crit and I was a bit confused by this, because (aside from being an incredibly minor theoretical boost in dps) it really just cuts about 1k from expertise for more crit and slightly more mastery. Is this the general mode of thinking now, that expertise isn't really worth it? I have no plans to suddenly drop below 7.5% expertise but I was curious what the communal thoughts on such things were, especially since for rogues it seems ShadowCraft is usually the definitive answer when looking for tips and tricks with regards to minmaxing reforges.

While it might be sub-optimal, I've been raiding very comfortably at ~4.2 expertise. This does lead to a DPS loss occasionally, but is offset by over 4% mastery and 1% haste I would need to dump in order to satisfy the cap. The current tier is difficult to cap even with full BiS heroic gear without heavy reforging, so my feelings are it's worth the risk for potential DPS gain. 5.2 should help us get closer to the cap naturally and perhaps will no longer be a factor in the future, pending what plans Blizzard has for hit/exp caps.

Rfeann · 02/05/13, 7:15 PM

One of the factors that allows the two posters above to type what they've typed without being strung up by their entrails is that the EP values for the majority of Assassination's secondary stats (outside of the special hit cap and mastery) are indeed incredibly close right now.

It was established a good while ago (in the life of this expansion) that expertise wasn't going to be as valuable for Mut rogues as was sometimes being theorized during the beta. As you've seen when you plug yourself into ShadowCraft, your current EP values for expertise, haste and crit are all within around 2% of one another. While there is a "best" way to reforge -- and ShadowCraft is pretty reliable at showing you what that way is -- the difference between "best" and "worst" in that scenario is awfully small.