Assassination from the Mists - Page 2

OneOfAll · 10/01/12, 6:04 PM

How much expertise for pve ? I put 8.01% and not 0% on parry on 93lvl bosses.

♦ Viper · 10/01/12, 7:14 PM

Originally Posted by OneOfAll

How much expertise for pve ? I put 8.01% and not 0% on parry on 93lvl bosses.

7.5% is the 'soft' expertise cap, as it removes dodge from the hit table for a 93. You won't remove parry, but that shouldn't matter because parry is removed by virtue of attacking from behind.

That said, the stat weights provided above by Pathal indicate that soft capping expertise isn't optimal for Assassination and should only be done if it can't be reforged into more mastery (or if you really dislike being dodged and don't care about the dps effect).

Sunshine23 · 10/02/12, 4:47 PM

hey guys, i really appreciate the effort you put into analyzing the art of roguecraft. this is the only site i actually trust in. however, i still have some questions which could not be solved after reading through all these comments.

1) is rupture to prioritize over slice and dice? this question has come about since you're obviously supposed to apply rupture before slice and dice in the opener.
2) is it worth applying rupture (including deadly poison) on few several targets standing right next to each other in case they survive its duration? if yes, is rupture to be applied with 1-2 or 4-5cps on each?
i'm not sure if the bonus dmg + venomous wounds effect outweigh the swing timer reset + neglect of envenom buff.
3) is rupture also used while bombing 6 or more high hp mobs with FOK+CT? if yes, is rupture to be applied with 1-2 or 4-5cps on each?
4) is slice and dice used while bombing 6 or more high hp mobs with FOK+CT?
5) single target szenario: rupture has expired while slice and dice has not. you got 1-2cp and you have enough energy for another mutilate+rupture. is rupture to be applied with 1-2 or with 4-5 cp?

these are certainly difficult questions due to the amount of variables involved. i would appreciate any single hint that could help me out.

Higginz · 10/02/12, 10:27 PM

im sorry if this is a dumb question, but are we still capping spell hit or is our poison cap built into melee hit now?

jAsOs · 10/03/12, 1:18 AM

IIRC, expertise + hit = spell hit.
As long as you get to 7.5% hit and expertise, you're good.

Kirtar88 · 10/03/12, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by jAsOs

IIRC, expertise + hit = spell hit.
As long as you get to 7.5% hit and expertise, you're good.

This is true, 7,5% expertise and 7,5% melee hit will result in a total of 15% spell hit, but IIRC i read something about poisons being affected by our melee hit now, so you dont need to be expertise capped if your mastery stat weights are higher than expertise.
If you got some spare time you could easily check this at the target dummy and share your observations.

Schmoopy · 10/03/12, 1:28 PM

Originally Posted by Kirtar88

This is true, 7,5% expertise and 7,5% melee hit will result in a total of 15% spell hit, but IIRC i read something about poisons being affected by our melee hit now, so you dont need to be expertise capped if your mastery stat weights are higher than expertise.
If you got some spare time you could easily check this at the target dummy and share your observations.

You are correct. Poisons are off melee hit now. You don't need spell hit cap, that is why an EP value for it is not given in Pathal's first post.

Kirtar88 · 10/04/12, 1:18 PM

Has anyone done some serious testing if the legendary daggers are still viable compared to the ilvl 463 blue daggers from heroics?
I ran lots of tests with the current simcraft version lately with all non-epic pieces of gear one can acquire pre-raid and also with all different weapon enchants (windsong, landslide, elemental force, dancing steel) and my gear-setups using both legendaries always came up ahead by 1k-5k dps while they appeared kind of weak to me during tests on the raid boss target dummies.

Shadire · 10/04/12, 4:31 PM

Originally Posted by Kirtar88

Has anyone done some serious testing if the legendary daggers are still viable compared to the ilvl 463 blue daggers from heroics?
I ran lots of tests with the current simcraft version lately with all non-epic pieces of gear one can acquire pre-raid and also with all different weapon enchants (windsong, landslide, elemental force, dancing steel) and my gear-setups using both legendaries always came up ahead by 1k-5k dps while they appeared kind of weak to me during tests on the raid boss target dummies.

I don't know if you take into account the legendary proc rate decay (ie. fact that on 93+ lvl targets proc chance is 50% of what it is on sub 89 level targets). Because it has been mentioned couple times already that Simcraft does not take it into account. So if you can estimate the dps gain from legendary procs on your sims and multiply it by 50% you'll get rough estimation what's its real worth in raiding environment.

My guess would be that 463+ dagger are better anyway due to lower standard deviation of dps results. Simply speaking, you might get only 1-2 legendary procs over the boss fight and if these procs are badly timed, your dps is screwed. While flat bonuses from MoP daggers stats give reliable dps increase even if it slightly smaller than legendary sim.

Leitka · 10/04/12, 7:38 PM

Originally Posted by Kirtar88

Has anyone done some serious testing if the legendary daggers are still viable compared to the ilvl 463 blue daggers from heroics?
I ran lots of tests with the current simcraft version lately with all non-epic pieces of gear one can acquire pre-raid and also with all different weapon enchants (windsong, landslide, elemental force, dancing steel) and my gear-setups using both legendaries always came up ahead by 1k-5k dps while they appeared kind of weak to me during tests on the raid boss target dummies.

For 5 mans, its not hard for the legendaries to keep up with superior weapons, in my experience; but that's mostly due to the speed at which people are pulling and the amount of aoe present. In general, 463 weapons should generally be clear winners.

I *would* recommend keeping your legendaries around in your bags though; if we end up with another massive aoe fight similar to Maloriak, I feel they could very easily retain value for a while. On such large pulls, FoK helps to stack the proc ridiculously fast, and if you're able to push out 3-4 procs a minute with ease then well, it's almost a no-brainer. Sha of Anger is the only thing where I've really found this applicable at current, but its interesting.

Hildegard · 10/04/12, 7:58 PM

Any chance to get numbers for PvP Power? The whole community is waiting for them.

Toomuchsugar · 10/04/12, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by Hildegard

Any chance to get numbers for PvP Power? The whole community is waiting for them.

From what I can tell, agility is stronger than PvP Power. But pvp power is stronger than the secondary stats, so Gemming Agi/pvp power seems to be the best if it's a blue socket with a good bonus.

Pathal · 10/05/12, 2:57 AM

Originally Posted by Hildegard

Any chance to get numbers for PvP Power? The whole community is waiting for them.

Assassination:
With 0 PvP Power: 2.54442215251
With 3k PvP Power: 2.28566735731

Combat:
With 0 PvP Power: 2.7457007624
With 3k PvP Power: 2.46647695606

Subtlety:
With 0 PvP Power: 3.44029279943
With 3k PvP Power: 3.09284615951

These were taken from the current rough H14 scripts, after enabling the PvP flag. The PvP EP weight would be much more helpful if the stats and target armor were set to reflect realistic values though.

Nevertheless, this does suggest that PvP Power is the best method for increasing damage against other players.

Hildegard · 10/05/12, 4:00 AM

Thank you so much Pathal!

frogbound · 10/06/12, 11:46 AM

Does pooling Energy to 80 before using envenom still increase overall dps ?