[top]Stat Weights

야수(yasu) · 03/18/13, 12:24 PM

Thank you for the update.
And.. I have a couple of question

Is it still recommended to reforge expertise till the cap(2550) even though the it's EP value is lower than other stats?

Also, about the BiS. Wouldn't it be better if the main-hand dagger is [Iron Qon's Boot Knife] due to the EP value?

Nalinaa · 03/18/13, 1:12 PM

Could we add the T14 2pc and 4pc EP value back in for comparison purposes on the front page? I know shadowcraft will tell us which is currently better for us, but it is nice being able to compare just how strong a set bonus was compared to current tier, for example.

Ozsmeg · 03/19/13, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by snowman2050

Last updated: Mar 18th, 2013.

[top]Stat Weights

These are sample stats weights according to Shadowcraft, please note that these sample EP values are derived from BiS conditions, please use Shadowcraft to determine more accurate relitive real time values.

Stat	H T15
Agi	2.720
Yellow Hit	2.195
Haste	1.385
Mastery	1.171
Expertise	1.162
Crit	1.154
White Hit	0.732

Do we know what the factors are for haste being better than mastery, and at what point that happens?

Kryptomaniac · 03/19/13, 2:29 AM

Originally Posted by Ozsmeg

Do we know what the factors are for haste being better than mastery, and at what point that happens?

Biggest factor that will ever make haste outweight mastery at any point is using 2 RPPM Trinkets. For example, If you were to look at "possible BIS" gear sets, and for Trinket 1 you used Talisman of Bloodlust + Heroic Bottle Of Infinite Stars, mastery would further outweigh haste. But change that bottle of infinite stars to a Bad Juju + Talisman of Bloodlust, and haste begins to have a higher EP value, thus either matching mastery or being slightly ahead or slightly behind depending highly on gear setup.

I don't know the exact math behind the RPPM trinkets as its really complicated in my opinion, but theres some great discussions on it, but basically the RPPM system makes it so that haste becomes a lot more useful of a stat, as the more haste you have, the higher the chance you will get a RPPM trinket to proc. This may not be 100% correct, but I Believe this is the general consensus when dealing with the new trinkets.

Ozsmeg · 03/19/13, 5:14 AM

That caveat on the haste thing should be included and maybe a second set of EP values for if you are not wearing a RPPM trinket. It could lead to people reforging to haste just because the BiS gear includes a RPPM trinket even if they don't have one.

snowman2050 · 03/19/13, 5:17 AM

- Regarding Iron Qon's boot knife, it will depend on how you want to reforge you gear sets, I had instances where both the Boot Knife and Fang were being replaced when compiling the list due to different gem optimizations and reforging. The difference is minimal, and will probably depend on your own racial's / gear choices.

- Expertise is still pretty much one of those stats that falls under the personal preference bracket, you will not see too much of a dps loss if you enforced the Expertise cap, essentially your sacrificing DPS for stability.

- As Krpto pointed out, Haste has a big impact on the RPPM trinkets; it is essentially why I added the following line to the OP

"please note that these sample EP values are derived from BiS conditions, please use Shadowcraft to determine more accurate relative real time values"

To be clearer I added a short line of text briefly explaining the reasoning as to why Haste trumps Mastery.

- Finally, I have added T14 set EP values back to the OP, please be aware that these values are based on BiS T14 gear sets. If you want a more accurate number for when to personally break a set bonus consult shadowcraft. I have also added a few trinkets as per request via PM, considering the strength of them compared to some of the new raid finder trinkets I felt these requests were more than justified.

As always anything that seems out of place, or needs adding please let me know.

theturn · 03/19/13, 5:45 PM

Has shadowcraft not been updated to reflect these trinket rankings? I'm still getting a loss going from either the vp trink or 2/2 heroic vial to N juju.

snowman2050 · 03/20/13, 4:10 AM

Originally Posted by theturn

Has shadowcraft not been updated to reflect these trinket rankings? I'm still getting a loss going from either the vp trink or 2/2 heroic vial to N juju.

The trinket rankings are based on BiS conditions, this means that there will be some fluctuation depending on your own particular gear set, also bear in mind that the new RPPM trinkets favour haste, so essentially they will be pretty weak untill you get a second and plunge into forging haste over mastery.

Khazilein · 03/20/13, 5:33 AM

Originally Posted by theturn

Has shadowcraft not been updated to reflect these trinket rankings? I'm still getting a loss going from either the vp trink or 2/2 heroic vial to N juju.

You need around 11% haste for the normal mode RPPM trinkets to be better. And you don't reforge for haste until heroic gear most of the times, so you have to wait to get better gear to swap out your H Bottle.

Psilocin · 03/20/13, 8:59 AM

Originally Posted by theturn

Has shadowcraft not been updated to reflect these trinket rankings? I'm still getting a loss going from either the vp trink or 2/2 heroic vial to N juju.

I apologize, not trying to beat a dead horse, but SC has been updated to reflect the proper RPPM for Bad Juju, Renataki's etc? I pick up Renataki's last night, I have Talisman and H Bottle equipped, with my current gear it's putting N Renataki's just above Raid Finder Terror when replacing H Bottle; I find it hard to believe this is what Blizz intended out of a 522 trink. The calculations for RPPM are way out of my league, but I assume SC takes into account the increase proc chances with proc misses? This new system seems like a nightmare for you guys.

snowman2050 · 03/20/13, 9:11 AM

Renataki's is a terrible trinket for Assassination, mainly down to the fact that Expertise is generally ranked lower than most other stats for the spec. The huge amount of expertise makes it not even worth picking up, in this particular case SC is correct.

Psilocin · 03/20/13, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by snowman2050

Renataki's is a terrible trinket for Assassination, mainly down to the fact that Expertise is generally ranked lower than most other stats for the spec. The huge amount of expertise makes it not even worth picking up, in this particular case SC is correct.

Thanks, but that wasn't really my question. I realize expertise has a low value at times; however while gearing up, I have actually been well under cap, and as it stands right now, EXP is actually above haste with my current gear, so it's obviously situational. Again, the math is beyond me and I applaud you all for doing it, but it seems to me that even with the loaded EXP on it (which some can obviously be reforged), that it was not their intention to have it perform so low as a 522 trink and that the RPPM system they have come up with must be crap if a proc of 7331.5 AGI over 20 seconds is incredibly less than 3935 AGI over 20 seconds, but with constant mastery. I guess that's not really a question at this point but more of a statement. However, if SC has the correct formulas, then it's just a horribly designed trink.

Guaicow · 03/22/13, 12:21 PM

How valuable is the envenom uptime maitenence really?

Is it worth to clip it to get an envenom with trinket proc benefit or should I ignore it and let the trinket fall off?

SleepySlug · 03/22/13, 3:02 PM

Originally Posted by Guaicow

How valuable is the envenom uptime maitenence really?

Is it worth to clip it to get an envenom with trinket proc benefit or should I ignore it and let the trinket fall off?

Overall I don't think either choice would have a very significant effect on your dps, but for the sake of answering:
I'm not 100% positive, but I would have to guess that letting the trinket fall off would be a better option than clipping. The Envenom buff itself doesn't scale in any way with your trinkets. The poisons caused by having Envenom up will do more dmg with agil trinks procced, but that's not really something that has to be accounted for. The only damage you'd gain from clipping the Envenom buff would be a Envenom with w/e trink effects you have procced.

Envenom uptime is all about quantity, not so much quality. Having a high uptime just means many more DP procs, which make up the bulk of our dmg as Assassination.

latias714 · 03/24/13, 6:23 AM

Bad post, apologies