Assassination from the Mists - Page 9

• Aldriana · 11/12/12, 3:52 AM

Historically, the answer tends to be that clipping as much Envenom as is necessary is better than wasting any amount of either energy or combo points. I won't guarantee that that's still the case, but it would surprise me greatly if its not.

Grimwolf · 11/12/12, 11:54 AM

Option 4 would be to use Crimson Tempest, Mutilate, and then Envenom as the Envenom buff falls off. I'm not claiming this would be a dps increase, only that it is an option.

nonmagical · 11/13/12, 3:52 AM

Originally Posted by Grimwolf

Option 4 would be to use Crimson Tempest, Mutilate, and then Envenom as the Envenom buff falls off. I'm not claiming this would be a dps increase, only that it is an option.

I forgot about CT. I have never found using it to be a DPS increase ever.

Even in AoE situations I use Envenom over CT due to the insane poison damage I can get off with the Envenom buff + FoK. Everytime I try to use CT it just doesn't seem to put out the same kind of numbers. But this is just anecdotal observations.

snowman2050 · 11/13/12, 6:47 AM

Originally Posted by nonmagical

I forgot about CT. I have never found using it to be a DPS increase ever.

Even in AoE situations I use Envenom over CT due to the insane poison damage I can get off with the Envenom buff + FoK. Everytime I try to use CT it just doesn't seem to put out the same kind of numbers. But this is just anecdotal observations.

With this in mind, (and I apologise as this is only theoretical) would it be worth in heavy AOE situations (Wind Lord for example), to run normal rotation of Rupture & Envenom with FoK as the combo point builder, that way you recieve the Envenom buff aswell as the energy regen?

Isebel · 11/13/12, 2:16 PM

Assuming I haven't done this wrong, it seems the DMF Card is going to be nerfed roughly 280 (from 3027 procced agi for 15 secs to 2682 procced agi for 15 secs).

(956+(3027*(15/55)))*2.72 = 4865.80 EP
(956+(2682*(15/55)))*2.72 = 4589.88 EP

I'm just going to take the EP values from the chart here and not calculate myself as I trust they're at least close, this would knock it down under the Raid Finder Elegon trinket. So in all reality I guess you're only looking at replacing the thing if you have any of that difficulty value of trinket or a heroic Terror of the Mists which for most people is going to be quite some time. A nerf but nothing substantial.

I do want to note one thing, and I don't know if this is happening to others as well. Since the maintenance last week I've been seeing VASTLY lower uptime on the trinket. I've had instances where it doesn't proc for an entire minute on occasions. I know it goes off of crits so it might not be proccing right on the ICD but that seems a bit strange. I don't know if I'm just a curse with my luck or what but if that's happening across the board I'm not sure if that would have a significant effect on the EP value at all.

EDIT: Appears this would be strictly for Challenge Modes scaling only.

• Aldriana · 11/13/12, 2:21 PM

I will note that the Relic of Xuen nerf is currently on 5.1 PTR and thus (presumably) not an immediate change; it seems mostly aimed at making sure it doesn't last significantly into the next tier. So I don't know how heavily I'd way that forthcoming change when thinking about itemization for the current tier.

chultt · 11/13/12, 2:36 PM

It appears it was datamined incorrectly, as a blue just posted this in response to a thread about the subject:

No! Bad! Stop pointing to data-mined content as fact. The change that got picked up was actually an adjustment to Darkmoon Card trinkets for Challenge Mode stat scaling.

Source: Sick of Blizz Lies about hearing feedback - Forums - World of Warcraft

Knarcus · 11/14/12, 7:08 AM

On Elegon I chose versatility over anticipation, which means I can't get above 5 CP.

When I pop my SB, my mutilate will yield 3-4 CPs and dispatch 2-3 CPs

There are two different scenarios: bosshealth is above 35% OR below 35% and I would like to hear your opinion on them.

Let's assume we start with 0 CPs and are in the above 35% scenario. My mutilate hits and leaves me with 4CP. I will either refresh Rupture if needed or use Envenom while trying to avoid clipping, however, I will clip if I risk energy capping.
I do this because I don't want to waste 2-3 CPs.

Now, let's say my Mutilate gave 3 CPs and procced, should I use Dispatch and risk the loss of one potential CP?
If I had SB off, and was on 4 CPs, I would historically use Dispatch, but would that be the best option?

Let's take the above and assume Dispatch did not proc and now I am left with 3 CPS. Another Mutilate would be a guaranteed loss of 1 CP and potentially 2 CPs.
This scenario is the one I am more concerned with. Should I use a 3 Point finisher here or another mutilate?

What are your opinions on the equivalent below 35% scenarios? (3 CPs and 4 CPs)

jAsOs · 11/14/12, 7:52 AM

@Knarcus
I'm curious why are you picking versatility over anticipation for elegon?

From what i've been reading, energy capping is a bigger dps loss than envenom clipping.
IIRC biggest dps loss would be energy capping>wasting CP> envenom clipping.

Never use a 3 cp finisher.

Knarcus · 11/14/12, 9:49 AM

On my first attempts on Elegon I was Combat specced, however, I specced to assassination to take advantage of the damage multipliers at the end of the fight via dispatch.

When I played combat I had troubles with properlry switching from Elegon to the sparks, versatility allowed for instant Eviscerate on every spark via redirect without CD (I did not know about blade flurrying targets behind me at the time)

With envenoms damage mainly comming from the buff it gives us after using it, there might be not such a great benefit for versatility after all on Elegon.

Back to my original Question about 3CP finisher. It was mainly about wasting the CPs of the mutilate vs using Envenom in general, not specifically about clipping it.
I interpret your answer in the way that I should rather use Mutilate, eventhough I know CPs will be wasted

Kodjin · 11/14/12, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by jAsOs

@Knarcus
I'm curious why are you picking versatility over anticipation for elegon?

I also choose versatility over anticipation for Elegon because of the target swapping.

• Aldriana · 11/14/12, 1:52 PM

The short answer is that no one has studied non-Anticipation cycles in that much detail, because they're pretty clearly inferior in most cases. And in my experience with Elegon, I'm pretty sure Anticipation is the way to go there, as well. That said: based on what the answer has historically been, my best guess at a rule of thumb would be this: if doing another attack has a chance of wasting a CP due to SF, go ahead and do it; if doing another attack is *guaranteed* to waste a CP, do another finisher first. That is: if you're at 3 CP with Shadow Blades up, go ahead and Dispatch, as without Seal Fate (which only happens ~20% of the time) you'll just be at 5. If, however, you're at 4 CP, you will waste a CP even if SF doesn't proc, so do a finisher before the Dispatch.

bromli · 11/15/12, 6:04 AM

Versatility may well be bad for elegon, but it feels pretty awesome on garalon. I know most people still probably go combat for that fight, but at least for me in my group i'm pulling noticeably better numbers in assassination since the nerf. That said, the question about 3cp envenoms still remains, as far as casting mutilate with shadow blades up. It feels wrong, but that doesn't mean it is. Also, even if anticipation turns out to be better in this case, it still remains a valid theorycrafting question, unless we're willing to say that versatility is simply bad for assass. in every scenario.

Isebel · 11/15/12, 12:58 PM

I think one of the better arguments for comparison would be if you see more use out of Versatility in a fight or if you see yourself making use of Anticipation more in a fight. Personally, I have Anticipation for most any fight simply for the fact that I believe it comes in handy more often than Versatility, mostly because of Shadow Blades but also for those times your VW decides to be nice on a pull, times you can tab around to get more than one Rupture up for more VW procs, Bloodlust is almost always a time you can make use of Anticipation or fights like Feng where you can pool up energy and CPs for the shield phase adds to maximize your burst AoE (also abusing the CT bug in many aoe situations, but don't quote me on how long that might last).

Elegon and Garalon, particularly Elegon, are example where you want to be leaving a Rupture up on the boss anyway, especially with a 2pc set bonus. More VW damage makes Rupture uptime on more targets a higher benefit than the old energy regen and damage, that can probably be calculated out to where Rupture uptime on X targets is translated into damage but that's for another discussion.

Garalon can be disputed as I feel Versatility can make a good name for itself on that fight but again I typically leave a Rupture on the body with 3-5 CPs left or just Envenom with a quick swap to the leg to get a good enough benefit out of the uptime I have on it, leaving Anticipation to be used for other parts of the fight. Like I said though, I think Garalon in particular is a great fight to utilize Versatility.

Quite frankly, whichever you decide to choose is up to you for now since, as Aldriana mentioned, there are very few who have gone into great detail with non-Anticipation rotations. It is as he said though, essentially the same as pre-MoP as far as when to use generator vs. finisher relative to the amount of CPs you gain.

Kodjin · 11/16/12, 1:47 AM

I just noticed something while raiding tonight regarding Anticipation that I thought was noteworthy enough to share. This more than likely will not apply to most but there may be a few that have been making the same mistake I have been and this will help increase their DPS a little.

Since I am an impatient person I tend to be a very spammy with my Envenom and Rupture hotkeys. I basically just spam it over and over again very quickly until I see the ability take. The issue I just noticed is that with Anticipation I tend to overwrite my 5cp 6 second Envenom with a lesser CP and shorter Envenom buff, thus severely reducing any gains from Anticipation. I do the same with Rupture. I was under the impression that a lesser CP rupture cannot override a rupture of greater magnitude but that is not the case.

Lesson learned.