I don't understand that question. Is it implying that Shuriken Toss be used as a cp builder instead of mutilate or dispatch for assassination, or instead of backstab for sub?
Shuriken Toss us already being considered as a combo point generator for Assassination, because of the higher cp/energy ratio than Mutilate. The question remains whether it will be a dps increase for sub as well. I would assume not because Backstab is still a considerable chunk of our damage, but further testing is needed.
Are there sims or logs that show ST is viable for assassination? If so, it would be worth sharing them in the Assassination thread, because I've seen no mention of it there.
In SimC for T14H geared rogue...
Assassination goes from 116.8k to 102.5k when using ST instead of mutilate
So as not to completely sidetrack the Sub thread...
Sub goes from 116.0k to 112.8k when using ST instead of backstab, but that setup is reforged for haste and the rotation may not be ideal
The action priority lists I used were fairly quick and dirty mods of the existing ones, (I had to tweak places where they were relying on Anticipation talent). It may be possible to improve the sub rotation and reforging/gear to get ST closer to Backstab (or maybe pass it), but I doubt there are enough improvements to be made that could find another 15% in the Assassination rotation with ST (at least according to SimC).
I haven't checked the sub modeling on SimC extensively (just got it and not used to C++), but my hunch is that the real problem with ST over BS would be the loss of Anticipation. As I discuss in the guide there are a lot of optimizations you can make with Anticipation. Does anyone know what SimC does with Anticipation?
Also quick question about SimC: Where are the damage formulas located?
The only place in the rotation SimC explicitly takes advantage of anticipation is to make sure it gets in an ambush at the end of shadow dance. It does not try to save up combo points during non-buffed stretches of the fight.
the following is the priority list they are currently using for a troll with engineering. If you aren't familiar, it just goes down the action list and does the first one that is possible to do that also has all its conditions met. The exceptions are the pool energy lines. it only pools energy if all the conditions for the next action are met except for the energy requirement.
Seems that Ambush and Garrote do about the same DPE coming straight from stealth, with Garrote potentially slightly ahead with no sunder armor debuff. FW of course makes Ambush far better DPE. Since Ambush gives more CP it is probably best to use it min-fight. However I'm wondering whether or not Garrote should be used in the first opener, as it applies SV (letting us get SnD and SV up quickly without using sub-5-CP ruptures or SnDs), and the lower energy cost potentially allows more abilities to fit into the MoS/FW window.
Edit: There are updated EP on Shadowcraft. As they are quite different I would like to see some tests done as to which are better. When I get the chance I'll do these, though if someone else can provide logs that would be greatly appreciated. Of specific peculiarity is the high increase in crit's EP.
The approximate weights in the new Shadowcraft: Agi>>Hit>Crit>Exp>Haste>Mastery
I can't reply to the thread as I've just made an account but I believe shadowcraft to display wrong EP values in this case.
I've done a small test on dummies with the old ( hit/exp > haste > all) reforges and the new reforges afterwards ( hit/exp > crit > all).
Here are my recount values, With haste i had a nuke of 60k whereas with crit I couldn't get much further than 55k.
It's not much of a proper test I agree but I think it does show that if crit is deemed better in the end it's not by much.
Fight duration was about 3:20 each, just enough to get a full rotation of shadow blades going.
While target dummies aren't generally good for testing actual rogue dps since we like buffs a lot and in the case of sub rely on crits from other raiders, these results definitely seem to indicate that there's something wrong with the current Shadowcraft EP values. It's also worth noting that against a dummy crit gives us more benefit than it does in a raid due to not being able to rely on the raid for HaT procs.
After checking Shadowcraft with no buffs the EP values don't change enough to explain the results against the dummy.
Does Shadowcraft simulate HaT-Procs correctly after the update?
It's the only Crit-Reliance we have left, so my guess would be that the issue lies within the Simulation of HaT-procs from Group Members.
edit: Observed another funny thing with Shadowcraft, it boosts my DPS when i pick ST over ATCP by 5k. I liked to use ST for a long time now, with a 476 MH and no Set....but now i got 2p T14, and i thought that BS would now outperform ST without a Shadow of a Doubt (DPE). My testing so far concludes that both are still incredibly close, but with ST you miss out on ATCP, so not anywhere near a 5k increase.