The Art of Combat - Page 4

♦ Viper · 11/19/12, 3:38 AM

Originally Posted by Chult86

I thought it was established that Rupture ticks don't change, so if you apply it during DI it will keep ticking for that 30% increased damage.

This. The choice of using Rupture vs using Evis doesn't depend on Insight level because the damage is calculated at the time of application.

From the logs:

[22:58:37.391] Viper Rupture Gara'jal the Spiritbinder 10655
[22:58:39.412] Viper Rupture Gara'jal the Spiritbinder 10655
[22:58:41.385] Viper Rupture Gara'jal the Spiritbinder 10655
[22:58:43.390] Viper Rupture Gara'jal the Spiritbinder 10655
[22:58:43.463] Viper's Deep Insight fades from Viper
[22:58:45.403] Viper Rupture Gara'jal the Spiritbinder 10655
[22:58:47.452] Viper Rupture Gara'jal the Spiritbinder *21949*
[22:58:49.405] Viper Rupture Gara'jal the Spiritbinder 10655
[22:58:51.465] Viper Rupture Gara'jal the Spiritbinder 10655

Feano · 11/22/12, 9:22 AM

Can anyone clarify; I have a ilvl 502 Dagger and a 489 Fist wep, I'm assuming I should be using the dagger as my mainhand for the extra melee damage as it's the biggest portion of my damage breakdown, although i'd be losing SS and KS dmg etc.

Can't seem to find a definitive answer anywhere..

Dharenna · 11/22/12, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Feano

Can anyone clarify; I have a ilvl 502 Dagger and a 489 Fist wep, I'm assuming I should be using the dagger as my mainhand for the extra melee damage as it's the biggest portion of my damage breakdown, although i'd be losing SS and KS dmg etc.

Can't seem to find a definitive answer anywhere..

On this case you did not pay attention the very first article on this thread.
---
Gearing section:
"Always use a slow(2.6s speed) mainhand."
---

I think it should be colored red and written in 40pt font - since every now and then someone comes up with idea of using dagger on MH as combat. Due weapon normalization you never do that, not even if dagger is like 15 item-levels higher.

Feano · 11/22/12, 10:42 PM

That's what I wanted clarification on, as "Always use a slow(2.6s speed) mainhand." isn't actually the case, nor is there any explanation of why.

♦ Viper · 11/22/12, 11:24 PM

It's very nearly always the case. I loaded up my profile in Shadowcraft and gave myself a heroic (509) Spiritsever in the MH. I then searched around for which slow weapon matched its dps. The LFR (476) Gara'kal beat it by 300 dps. The 470 pvp weapons are finally worse. So I'd say as long as you have a slow weapon within 35 ilvls of your dagger, use the slow weapon. Generally speaking, that's always.

Lilìtu · 11/23/12, 7:57 AM

You shouldn't look at the weapon dps for the MH's choice.

In your case, dagger has 3,5k dps, while fist has 3,1k, due to the lower item level. So, the dagger seems to be a better choice, but SS and RS are based on weapon maximum damage, not its dps. So the dagger has 8k damage, while fist has 10,5k, that's 2,5k more damage for every SS or RS, not counting mastery proc, blade flurry, etc etc.

At the same ilvl, a 2,6 weap does 44,5% more maximum damage than a 1,8, and that's the reason the legendary Golad had 45% SS and RS bonus.

Due to Combat Potency balancing, you have no more need of a fastest OH, and you can choose both 1,8 and 2,6 weapons, where 2,6 OHs do a little more KS damage.

Chult86 · 11/27/12, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Aminagorum

Any calculations about how much stronger (or not) a slow OH is in comparison to a fast OH of the same DPS range?

Not talking about the problems with the KS Usage like Garalon where you could prefer a faster OH for the same amount of energyregen but more poison proccs.

I am askin that, cause a few rogues (and roguetwinks) of relatively good guilds, where a gearing problem shouldnt be significant, are wearing some daggers in their OH's.

Using two slow weapons pulls ahead mostly due to KS damage iirc. When you're not able to safely KS, on fights like Garalon, you're better off using a dagger offhand.

reg0ner · 11/28/12, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Chult86

Using two slow weapons pulls ahead mostly due to KS damage iirc. When you're not able to safely KS, on fights like Garalon, you're better off using a dagger offhand.

Who says you can't KS on Garalon? Sure you can; the legs.

Jinjiro · 11/28/12, 1:24 PM

Originally Posted by reg0ner

Who says you can't KS on Garalon? Sure you can; the legs.

That's insanely risky, however, since you can (and probably will) KS to underneath him - triggering Crush. If there's a way to avoid this it would be nice to post it here and on the mechanics thread.

Roketsu86 · 11/28/12, 1:37 PM

Originally Posted by Jinjiro

That's insanely risky, however, since you can (and probably will) KS to underneath him - triggering Crush. If there's a way to avoid this it would be nice to post it here and on the mechanics thread.

It actually is in the mechanics thread here. For the sake of completeness I'll copy it to this post as well though:

Originally Posted by Knarcus

Originally Posted by Desuka

Oh, are the targets Killing Spree can attack determined by what's within range when you initiate killing spree, rather than what's near you at any given jump?

On Garalon that is the case.

using KS on the fron legs is more beneficial because 100% of the KS Damge will be partially copied by Blade Flurry.
while using KS on the rear legs I experienced about 20% of my KS hits being partially copied.

I think this is due to the front legs being closer to the body than the rear legs.

However, on the front legs you have to be very cautious, using KS while being a little too close will teleport you into the purple circle. The rear legs are more position friendly regarding that.

bromli · 11/28/12, 5:35 PM

I could be wrong here, but wouldn't a heavy cleave fight like garalon favor slow OH anyway? Poison procs are the only benefit of fast OH, and those aren't copied. You would (I think) need a fight where a) you can't spree, and b) there's little to no flurry opportunity in order for fast OH to win. There aren't any fights like that currently, and if there were I'd just go assass.

bi0bi0 · 11/28/12, 5:43 PM

Originally Posted by Jinjiro

That's insanely risky, however, since you can (and probably will) KS to underneath him - triggering Crush. If there's a way to avoid this it would be nice to post it here and on the mechanics thread.

get 11y from the Body away and press KS, its still risky havent done it on Heroic until now (RangeDisplay is an nice Addon for this, put the body @focus and let you Display the Range to it, also good too see if it is in BF range)

Moritsume · 11/28/12, 6:45 PM

Regarding KS on Garalon, I tried last night and thought I had it down pretty well until one put me in the purple circle. He didn't begin to stomp until after Killing Spree was over (unfortunately the last hit left me in the purple circle). The hits made on the body where I then went back to the leg did not trigger a crush.

With this in mind, the minor glyph for Killing Spree that puts you in the same spot you started it at seems like it would solve the problem even if your KS goes astray and hits the body, since it would port you back to your starting spot near the leg.

Hurlbut · 11/28/12, 10:32 PM

Just thought I would post and request a quick edit to the OP that the Anticipation bug generating extra CP's with CT has been hotfixed as of the Nov. 28th hotfix.

Twoboxer · 11/28/12, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by Moritsume

With this in mind, the minor glyph for Killing Spree that puts you in the same spot you started it at seems like it would solve the problem even if your KS goes astray and hits [Garalon's] body, since it would port you back to your starting spot near the leg.

On LFR I've been "seen" under the body and caused Crush when starting on the leg with the glyph.