The Art of Combat - Page 6

Artoxia · 12/10/12, 7:48 AM

The Guide says "Prioritizing rupture over eviscerate results in a minor dps gain. Always use them with 5 CP.". It often comes to a situation when deep inside level is about to drop and you have 3-4 CPs left. Is it worth to spend 3-4 CPs on eviscerate with deep inside or wait for the 5th CP and eviscerate at "zero insight"?

Kirtar88 · 12/11/12, 12:58 PM

If you can't get another guaranteed 5CP evis or rupture while in deep insight, you should rather pool energy until deep insight fades and use the energy afterwards to continue with the normal generation of CP and anticipation stacks to reach shallow insight again before finishing. If your SnD is about to run off you can also use up 5CP to refresh it and even get into moderate insight again before you have to use another offensive finisher.

This way you will only lose 10%-20% of your insight bonus for this finisher and it will come with 5CP making the energy used more worthy in terms of damage per energy spent and cooldown reduction via restless blades.

Artoxia · 12/12/12, 3:14 AM

In this case i would stop using sinistre strike to pool my energy? This will (as you pointed out) result in a loss of 10-20% of my insight bonus for a new finisher. In addition to that i would loose the 30% bonus on the sinistre strikes i -could have done- while deep insight was up - wouldn't I?

Psychowolf · 12/12/12, 11:59 AM

You should still Sinister Strike while you can in Deep Insight, and if you do get 5CP and still in Deep Insight then use your Evis. Pooling energy as Combat doesn't really come into play until your next SS/RvS will jump you to another Insight level, so you can empty your energy in the new Insight then pool again when your next strike will jump again. At Deep Insight there is never a reason to pool energy aside from the pooling that occurs while using Killing Spree if it happens to be up for DI (In which you should empty energy and use it ASAP). On second thought, I can understand pooling energy during the last seconds of DI so you can get back to it quicker, but is it worth the DPS loss of not using the energy during that DI?

Empi3 · 01/10/13, 5:11 AM

adds on Mel'Jarak are immune to mind-numbing.
Stuns from paralityc poison don't break CCs. (i'm not really sure if it works actually. the poison stacks but I didn't check if it actually activates.)
Glyph of sap is pretty useless on this encounter, range and heals can easily CC with the spears, unless prey on the weak works since they have pooled hp. i don't think so though.

also. necroposting x]

Knarcus · 01/11/13, 6:54 AM

I don't play combat as main anymore and use it now only on Cleave fights, however, I still have a question that is bugging me:

I remember having read somewhere in this thread that I should avoid having to use SnD during deep insight.
Deep Insight has a length of 15s.
Therefore a snd that lasts shorther than 15s would qualify as too short when I am about to enter deep insight.

I was thinking that each progression of insight level is diminishing in value vs the value of the previous increase in damage.
The first level increases DMG from 100% to 110% - yielding a 10% increase
The second level increases DMG from 110% to 120% - yielding a 9.09% increase
The third level increases DMG from 120% to 130% - yielding a 8.33% increase

I was thinking about quantifying how much energy spent I lose by clipping SnD early. I assume that each SS creates 1.2 CPs, making SnD Cost me 4.16 SS which is about 166.7 Energy when generated through SS only.

SnD lasts 36 Seconds, with SnD having 14s left as the worst case I am wasting 38.8% (64,68) of the Energy spent on it earlier.

So I am left with either using an offensive finisher during moderate insight and using SnD during Deep for no waste in Energy spent on the old SnD vs clipping SnD and using an offensive finisher during Deep Insight for a 8.33% damage increase.
The lower the duration left on SnD, the fewer energy is wasted. There has to be a threshold where damage gained offsets energy wasted. On cleave fights the value of the energy would increase because of the 20% less regen.

What do you do, when you find yourself in that situation? Or do you avoid this situation by not always using 5 CP SnD finisher depending on whether the full duration would lead to the described problem, risking the 25 Energy we gain from using 5 CP finishers?

poptya · 01/13/13, 1:40 AM

Originally Posted by Egészségére

Hello

Was wondering if its worthwhile to deactivate Blade flurry when low on energy?
if not, maybe it will be in 5.2 with the new changes, when only fighting 2 mobs

Usually not, simply because of the CD on blade flurry. If the add is going to be in range for only a very short period of time, it's beneficial to pool energy prior to using BF, then pop it and spend all your energy, then switch it off once the second target moves away. But if you're going to be fighting the same two for awhile (more than a few seconds), you're best just leaving it on, since it's at least still cleaving melee hits.

Knarcus · 01/29/13, 3:38 AM

From the first page:

Prioritizing rupture over eviscerate results in a minor dps gain. Always use them with 5 CP.

I don't think this is always true. From what I understood Eviscerate has a higher damage per execute than Rupture, but Rupture a higher Damage per Energy spent.
In a situation where you are capped on GCD I think it's called, for instance Bloodlust + Adrenaline Rush, you should not use Rupture because of the lower damage per execute since there is no point in spending Energy on more Energy efficient Spells when generating more energy than you can spend.

koaschten · 02/10/13, 9:05 AM

I admit I haven't fooled around on the PTR for quite some time but is this really an issue?

And do i need to state how rediculous this is for combat? its got to the point where the rogues in my guild thought about not popping ar and sb together for combat because of the rediculous nature of our energy situation and that inherently hurts our long term dps because sb wont benefit from the 2-3 cycles/finishers we use during the AR. I Hope all of what i have said makes some sense to you, im not whining here, im simply pointing out a fundemental issue with the 4 piece.

What is the inherent problem with not using Adrenaline Rush and Shadowblades together? Doesn’t that sort of give you two Adrenaline Rushes? If it’s a big DPS loss then that would be a problem, but all it really seems to be doing is changing up your rotation a bit.

Pathal · 02/10/13, 3:05 PM

I'm not sure if you're talking about energy capping being a problem, or whether AR and SB should always be linked with this 4 piece preventing that.

If the later, the only problem I can put on the 4piece is that it HAS to be a noticeable DPS increase to not stack them, otherwise the bonus is useless since energy capping will obviously be a concern. We don't just have an opportunity cost of the energy generation, but the additional shadow blade swings when the two are stacked.

With what I've observed so far, the opportunity cost might be a little too large, and a little too real. It might end up being best to stack AR+SB whether you have the bonus or not.

Draigars · 02/13/13, 5:24 PM

- We think we understand the rogue concerns on the PvE 4pc better now. We don't mind Combat having to unlink AR and SB to maximize the bonus, and we still think the set bonus is a DPS increase over not having it. However, it may be the case that the value of the set bonus forces Combat to swap to another spec because the cooldown stacking is one of the mechanics that keeps Combat competitive. To try to (ahem) combat this, we are going to do something unusual and allow the set bonus to also reduce the global cooldown on rogue abilities to 0.7 sec during Shadow Blades. This should help prevent GCD lock / energy capping. Normally we are very reluctant to reduce the GCD lower than 1 sec, so this is very much an experiment.
Source

Here's the followup question then. Will this disable the AR glyph? That brings Combat to a .5s GCD with the glyph if they're stacked.

They will stack. As I said, it's an experiment.

They are definitely leading us toward stacking them. I wonder if the 0.3 sec reduction applies to Assassination as well.

Schmoopy · 02/14/13, 9:59 AM

Originally Posted by Draigars

They are definitely leading us toward stacking them. I wonder if the 0.3 sec reduction applies to Assassination as well.

Seems pretty clear from the blue post that this is for combat.

shadowboy813 · 02/14/13, 10:31 AM

I'm not sure I like the GCD reduction. Having a 0.5sec GCD and needing to use every one of them, however temporary, is not fun gameplay. It's strenuous and the fact that there needs to be such an ad hoc solution to a problem with one spec of 34 indicates a design flaw. There's a more elegant solution somewhere, but it might require a redesign of adrenaline rush (or a slight change, maybe increase attack speed and decrease the energy regeneration component).

That said, if it needs to be done, it needs to be done, and regardless of how much I don't like it, I'll just deal with it.

Schmoopy · 02/14/13, 3:18 PM

Originally Posted by shadowboy813

I'm not sure I like the GCD reduction. Having a 0.5sec GCD and needing to use every one of them, however temporary, is not fun gameplay. It's strenuous and the fact that there needs to be such an ad hoc solution to a problem with one spec of 34 indicates a design flaw. There's a more elegant solution somewhere, but it might require a redesign of adrenaline rush (or a slight change, maybe increase attack speed and decrease the energy regeneration component).

That said, if it needs to be done, it needs to be done, and regardless of how much I don't like it, I'll just deal with it.

Adrenaline rushes by definition are supposed to be frenetic periods, so the 0.5 GCD makes sense flavor and design wise. I don't think the problem of the 4 piece lies with adrenaline rush and see no reason to make changes to this ability when this is only a potential problem for this tier. The more likely and direct solution is to change or adjust the 4 piece. Personally, I'd be happy with a new bonus for the 4 piece. I enjoy the increased duration the current 4 set brings, but I don't want to go through another tier with a set bonus that works off the same skill.

Vinestal · 02/14/13, 4:19 PM

I'm surprised more people haven't complained about the legendary meta gems being far more helpful to assasination than combat with the value of crit being much higher for assasination than for combat. I wish that they had made a version with haste instead of crit. There have to be other classes that benefit little from crit. I realize it has a proc as well but the EP value is much lower over all for combat than for assasination.