ShadowCraft for Mists of Pandaria - Page 4

Indz · 11/28/12, 2:36 PM

I'm currently working on an update for Shadowcraft-UI, but I need some more days until it's fully working and tested. Please consider that the engine also needs an update to support the upgraded values for trinket procs.

Pathal · 11/29/12, 2:23 AM

How does the valor upgrade work on trinket procs anyways? Is it as simple as proc_value*(new_ilvl/old_ilvl), or is it something else?

♦ Viper · 11/29/12, 4:42 AM

Originally Posted by Pathal

How does the valor upgrade work on trinket procs anyways? Is it as simple as proc_value*(new_ilvl/old_ilvl), or is it something else?

Wowhead actually has support for showing the upgraded versions: Bottle of Infinite Stars - Item - World of Warcraft

3935/3653 = 1.0772 (agi proc)
1312/1218 = 1.0772 (mastery on trinket)

So it seems to be the same scale factor as the stats on the items. I don't think anybody has really worked too hard at reverse engineering the item level -> stats conversion, or if they have then I haven't seen it anywhere yet.

That said, it looks like the stats are being multiplied by 1.03788 for a 4 ilvl increase, and 1.03788*1.03788=1.07719 for an 8 ilvl increase. Not really sure where that number's coming from if anywhere, though.

Psilocin · 11/29/12, 2:17 PM

EDIT: question answered.

Shriekback · 11/30/12, 5:03 AM

Hello, and thanks for all the work you guys do!

While Shadowcraft was unavailable I started using SimulationCraft to determine stat weights. Now that It's back up I'm getting some significant differences on the relative values, and they're different enough that it will change how I gem as combat (basically haste or agility).

As a newb to SimulationCraft it's very possible that I'm not using it properly (the only options I really fiddle with are the built-in fight styles.)

So, I guess my question is which values would you go with considering both are probably not 100% done yet?

-Shriekback@Bleeding Hollow.

snowman2050 · 11/30/12, 6:44 AM

SimCraft has historically been way off in terms of modeling rogues and stat values, it was one of the main reasons why the community prefered using the various sim sheets and in turn shadowcraft.

Also be aware that EP values do fluctuate with gear, and generally the advice given in the combat guide thread is at BiS levels, so you may actually find in some instances that Agility will infact be stronger than Haste, depending on which items you are picking up and replacing.

Indz · 11/30/12, 7:32 AM

Originally Posted by Pathal

How does the valor upgrade work on trinket procs anyways? Is it as simple as proc_value*(new_ilvl/old_ilvl), or is it something else?

It's not that easy. But easier than item scaling. I will give you an example:
1. You need some data sources.
The Random Properties Datatable which holds the scaling of items dependend of the quality and slot of the item.
This is the Table i'm using in the UI: https://github.com/cheald/shadowcraf...Points.dbc.csv
column 0 is the itemlevel
column 1-5 is for epic quality items
column 6-10 is for blue quality items
coumn 11-15 is for green quality items

Relic of Xuen, Epic, itemlevel 476 we found 1930.
Relic of Xuen Upgrade Level 1 , Itemlevel 480, we found 2004
Relic of Xuen Upgrade Level 2 , Itemlevel 484, we found 2080

2. We need the actuall Spell Proc Scaling
The scale number can be found e.g. here https://simulationcraft.googlecode.c...spell_data.inc
For Relic of Xuen it's 1.5684000254

3. Simple Math
1930 x 1.5684000254 = 3027,012049022 (rounded to 3027)
2004 x 1.5684000254 = 3143,073650902 (rounded to 3134)
2080 x 1.5684000254 = 3262,272052832 (rounded to 3262)

This would also be possible, possible working for trinket procs, but not for items because of rounding issues. So I would suggest to use the above method.
3027 * 2080 / 1930 = 3262,259067358

Hope this helps.

Pathal · 11/30/12, 6:32 PM

I can store the scale factor for each proc, a base ilvl and upgrade type, and a table of proc constants for every ilvl. Then you would just pass 0, 1 or 2 for the number of stat boosts on the item, and I could pull from tuple[x]. Would that be easier for the frontend then?

Indz · 11/30/12, 7:56 PM

Yes, would be the easiest way to pass the proc_name + upgrade_level. And for the ep calculation you can return an array for every proc_name.

Indz · 12/01/12, 5:19 PM

After many problems the Item Upgrade feature is now online.
If you can't access the webpage, please try clearing you cache or try in private-browser mode or test with another browser, before you post about an issue.

You can upgrade an Item if you click on the golden text 0/2 or click the up-arrow near the itemname. When you are at maximum (e.g. 2/2) you can click again to be at 0/2 again.
Under the settings tab you can also select to show all upgrades in the ranking when you want to change an item.
Trinket procs for upgrades are currently using the ep from the base item because the engine is not yet supporting the procs.
Please note that the Wowhead tooltips are not 100% correct, hopefully wowhead will fix it soon.
The Item stats in the shadowcraft-database should be after many tests correct. If you think an Item has the wrong stats please report.

Edit: No 5.1 Rogue change is active.

koaschten · 12/01/12, 8:00 PM

Not sure if this is the right place to ask. I am trying to use shadowcraft on an android tablet and all seems to work, just not the scrolling of the gear frame.

Psilocin · 12/04/12, 8:09 PM

I know this is probably not top priority, but if it's not too difficult, is there anyway to add an option to lock specific gem slots and enchants on the web front end at some point? This was a great utility on Mr. Robot that I found quite useful at times. Thanks again!

TxH2oSkier · 12/05/12, 3:06 AM

I've been using SC for some time .. and first off let me tell you how great of a tool it is and how much it is appreciated.

I'm experiencing an issue using it as of late. I bring up my character and hit refresh from armory .. get all my new gear showing then hit "Auto Reforge All" and it shows me what I need to reforge. Then I hit Optimize gems and it shows almost all my gems need to be changed and then shows a a drop in my dps after gemming as they recommend. This cant be right.

Last week .. i had reforged and gemmed just as they said when I got a new piece of gear and i did it today to make make sure it was all right and this all happened. Why would i re-gem almost everything to drop my dps.

I even removed all reforge from everything and started from scratch. PLUS it has me way over hit cap.

Before I Hit Reforge and Optimize Gems 77027.7 DPS (+0.0)
Reforge all 79340.4 DPS (+2312.7)
Optimize Gems 79110.5 DPS (-229.9)

Zadden - Stormscale - US is the character

Have upgraded two items - dagger 1/2 and DMF trinket 2/2 and entered accordingly.

♦ Viper · 12/05/12, 4:31 AM

In your particular case, it looks like it's deciding the 120 exp bonus in your belt isn't worth getting because your marginal expertise EP is 0 (you're just barely over cap). If you change a reforge to drop you below expertise cap, optimize gems decides that you're currently using optimal gems.

e: I think the high amount of hit is just because you happen to have an extremely high-hit set of gear as it is. It's reforging out of hit nearly as much as it can.

Indz · 12/05/12, 4:45 AM

Originally Posted by TxH2oSkier

Before I Hit Reforge and Optimize Gems 77027.7 DPS (+0.0)
Reforge all 79340.4 DPS (+2312.7)
Optimize Gems 79110.5 DPS (-229.9)

Zadden - Stormscale - US is the character

Have upgraded two items - dagger 1/2 and DMF trinket 2/2 and entered accordingly.

The main problem is the Tomb Raiders Girdle. First the blue socket which gives the opportunity to socket 160 Hit and the socketbonus which gives 120 Expertise. In this case the optimize Gems routine often gives the wrong answer. For this case you need to manuelly gem and reforge. look at the dps, try out optimize gems and reforge and look which gives the best result. For some gear setups it's better to match the blue socket and take the socketbonus, for others it's better to gem all with 320 Haste. It's always a co-operation of Gemming and Reforging but both systems are working independent.