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Old 01/09/13, 2:53 PM   #106
Nryka
Glass Joe
 
Pandaren Rogue
 
Hyjal (EU)
To illustrate what Aldriana's saying: if I reforge my current gear with Shadowcraft, it'll show a 26 dps increase going from Mast/Exp/Crit to Mast/Crit/Exp. Sure, a 26 dps increase is an increase nonetheless; but given I usually switch to Combat on some fights, Expertise is much more valuable than Crit. Hence the current state of reforge in Shadowcraft.

I write about Rogues on Badstabbers.

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Old 01/09/13, 3:18 PM   #107
Jakani
Piston Honda
 
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Troll Rogue
 
Perenolde
I'd be interested in an option to "force" expertise reforging. I've got my gear set up for Assassination, which has expertise not worth capping. But for combat fights, and also just for rotation stability, I'd like having more expertise on my base gearset.

Would an option to artificially change the expertise value be possible? Say a box where I could put in the value I get for expertise while in my combat spec?

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Old 01/09/13, 5:32 PM   #108
theherecy
Glass Joe
 
Pandaren Rogue
 
Magtheridon (EU)
Originally Posted by Aldriana View Post
Because the final number at the end isn't the only thing that matters. If there are multiple reforges close together in quality, some people want to know that. And those people that do only care about the biggest number can still easily retrieve it by re-selecting the pre-reforge gearset.
Okay that's fair enough; thanks for the clarification.

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Old 01/10/13, 1:46 AM   #109
Haileaus
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Rogue
 
<Vex>
Gorefiend
Strength across all specs and gear levels appears to be valued at 1.05 (5% above what it should be). Why?

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Old 01/10/13, 1:48 AM   #110
 Viper
Eyelaser Ninja Pirate
 
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Troll Rogue
 
Burning Blade
Originally Posted by Haileaus View Post
Strength across all specs and gear levels appears to be valued at 1.05 (5% above what it should be). Why?
The +5% to all stats buff. Each point of strength on gear gives you 1.05 when buffed.

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Old 01/10/13, 5:10 AM   #111
cintx
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Lothar (EU)
I have problems refreshing my character (Cintei @ EU-Lothar) from armory)
I get a error 500 page, other rogues work fine.
I tried this on different browsers/computers so it seems to be an internal problem

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Old 01/10/13, 6:50 AM   #112
Indz
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Rogue
 
Blackmoore (EU)
Originally Posted by cintx View Post
I have problems refreshing my character (Cintei @ EU-Lothar) from armory)
I get a error 500 page, other rogues work fine.
I tried this on different browsers/computers so it seems to be an internal problem
There was a problem with [Malevolent Gladiator's Badge of Conquest]. Should be fixed now. Please try again.

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Old 01/10/13, 10:50 PM   #113
Pathal
Don Flamenco
 
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Worgen Rogue
 
Doomhammer
I've been mulling this over for too long now. I figured I should post this publicly to get other thoughts rather than to let it fester and rot in my head. Kinda long read, and uh... I'm afraid we need to use...MATH - YouTube

Basically, the way Combat is done right now relies on iteration to convergence. If you don't know what that is, it means we calculate the interactions with Restless Blades until the DPS stops moving much. Since Restless Blades means the more finishers we do, the more ARs we cast, which means we have more energy for more finishers. It leads into itself.

What I want to do, is break the Combat calculations up into phases. 4 of them to be precise. One phase with neither AR nor SB active, a phase with just AR, another phase with just SB, and another phase with both. I think this gives us greater control over energy capping (which I definitely think will come up as a concern again), and it lets us handle scenarios like the 4 piece since we don't have to extensively rewrite anything.

The concern that comes up then, is that the Restless Blades effect would pose a serious problem when we call the attack_counts up to 4 times. So the idea is that we treat RB as a sort of vector.

CD(1-RB/(INT+RB))
i.e.
180(1-10/(1/x+10)) from 0 to 1
180(1-10/(1/x+10)) from 0 to 1 - Wolfram|Alpha

CD would be the CD of the ability, RB is the impact of RB in seconds, and INT is the interval of finishers that trigger RB. Since we store them as finishers per second in the engine, we need to grab the reciprocal to get the average interval.

As we can see from the graph, one RB finisher every 10s (.1 finishers per second) generates an actual CD of 90s from 180s. This makes perfect sense once you realize you shave 10s off your CD every 10s (aka 20s for every 10s), which is another way of saying we're progressing through the cooldown twice as fast as normal, or half the base CD.

The next point of reference should be .2 finishers per second (once every 5 seconds). This generates an actual CD of 60s, which is 1/3 of 180, aka we're progressing through the CD 3 times as fast. Which again makes sense since that's 20s off the CD every 10s, or 30s for every 10s.

Now, this function does break at 0 (the condition needs to be handled prior to execution), but we can look at the limit as X approaches 0. It does just so happen to be 180, and it should since hitting AR and never casting a finisher means we should have a 180s CD. lim(x->0) 180(1-10/(1/x+10)) - Wolfram|Alpha

The CD length is irrelevant (meaning it applies to both KS and AR/SB), and the only thing that matters is that it can benefit from RB. Everything should scale to match the respective values.

Now, what we can do with this is determine the phase length, then subtract the relevant value from the CD based on the actual CD, and continue with this until all the phases are accounted for in the order of largest to least significant order. This is important because the no AR and no SB phase has no explicit phase limitation.

The the trajectory of the "vector" is defined by the non CD segment: "(1-RB/(INT+RB))". What we can do with this is divide the phase duration by that value to get the effective timespan, then subtract that from the base CD. This is the cached CD that gets passed through when we start to bring all this together. This method can't be used on the final phase, but we can use the final cached CD as the CD in the first function presented to get the effective length of the phase. You then add the phase lengths up to get the final, actual, CD for the ability. As in...

Say we have .2 finishers per second during AR+SB, for 15s. That's 15/.3333= 45s effective phase length. Lets assume we have 3s of just AR after that, at .1 finishers per second. We then take 180-45= 135s as the remaining CD length, but we have 3/.5=6s. So that becomes 135-6=129s effective CD. But then we have the no AR and no SB phase. With, lets say, .05 finisher per second. We then take that last effective CD and calculate 129(1-10/(1/.05+10)) = 86... Now add 15+3+ 86 =104s for the final actual CD. That's the number we use when we weight the phase's DPS contributions to the final DPS. Phase AR+SB is 15/104, Phase AR is 3/104, Phase None is 86/104.

EDIT: I'll admit, I was expecting a little more discourse.

Last edited by Pathal : 01/11/13 at 8:09 PM.

To Test Customized Gearsets: An abbreviated guide on setting up a script for Shadowcraft
Helping You Get Things Set Up: Installing Python, Shadowcraft, and Prerequisites
Grabs data from the Armory: Running an Importer Script

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Old 01/15/13, 10:25 PM   #114
Wally1169
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Duskwood
I'm having a potential issue with ShadowCraft. If you look at my character (Inferious @ Duskwood) and run the reforge, my DPS drops by 18. Now, I know I can press it again and get a different, potentially higher number, which I did but it never again reaches where I am currently. I also realize that 18 dps is nothing when you're looking at 80k. I'm just wondering why my current reforge setup isn't considered "optimal" by the reforge tool.

EDIT: never mind, I've read through some of the other posts and realized it doesn't really matter all that much since I'm sure I suck enough to more than compensate for the 18 dps. Plus I just got my 2nd LFR Spiritsever so the "current" setup I referred to no longer exists.

Last edited by Wally1169 : 01/16/13 at 11:21 PM.

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Old 01/21/13, 10:35 AM   #115
Wally1169
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Duskwood
Okay, now I have another question. Looking at the Raid Finder set pieces, and assuming I have all 5 equipped, why does ShadowCraft rank the set Leggings above the Dreadsworn Slayer Legs? By my math, using my stat weights with those 5 equipped, the set Leggings have a score almost 500 EP above where my math is (they're 4880.7 in SC and my math says 4387.2). Since it's the fifth piece, the set bonuses don't matter.

Furthermore, when I swap out the set Leggings for the Dreadsworn, the reforger tool has a coronary and simply reports "error" at the top right of the screen. However, the EP score on the Dreadsworn jumps up from 4834.9 to 5058.4, while the set Leggings drop by about 30 EP. So, when I have the set Leggings equipped, they're slightly higher whereas when the Dreadsworn are equipped they're a little bit higher.

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Old 01/21/13, 1:18 PM   #116
orderofmaken
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Rogue
 
Bloodhoof (EU)
After just getting my second hc Spiritsever for the OH I've been getting some errors and weird reforge suggestions from Shadowcraft. It's been telling me to go for over 8.5% expertise and around 2000 hit rating which can't be right. I tried pressing the reforge option a few more times but it still refuses to alter from this suggestion for Assassination.

I cleared out my browser info and tried it again but now all I'm getting is a long reforge time before it gives an "error" message

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Old 01/22/13, 11:56 AM   #117
PikaPika1006
Von Kaiser
 
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Pandaren Rogue
 
Illidan
Try Wowreforge.com with your Shadowcraft weights. Since it's been updated for MoP it's flawless.

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Old 01/22/13, 4:42 PM   #118
Twoboxer
Glass Joe
 
Troll Rogue
 
Uldaman
Just to note, Wowreforge is not picking up equipment upgrades - at least not mine.

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Old 01/22/13, 6:18 PM   #119
PikaPika1006
Von Kaiser
 
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Pandaren Rogue
 
Illidan
You can manually adjust the stats on gear by clicking on the item name if need be, hope you don't have too many upgraded items!

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Old 01/24/13, 12:26 PM   #120
Indz
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Rogue
 
Blackmoore (EU)
Originally Posted by orderofmaken View Post
After just getting my second hc Spiritsever for the OH I've been getting some errors and weird reforge suggestions from Shadowcraft. It's been telling me to go for over 8.5% expertise and around 2000 hit rating which can't be right. I tried pressing the reforge option a few more times but it still refuses to alter from this suggestion for Assassination.

I cleared out my browser info and tried it again but now all I'm getting is a long reforge time before it gives an "error" message
The problem is that haste,exp,crit in this specific gearsetup are extremly close together which produces a very long computation time for the reforger. The reforger is hosted on Google App Engine which is free, but has it's limits. I'm already in contact with Tini, who manages the reforger, to solve the issue but it will take some time and testing.

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