5.2 Changes Discussion - Page 13

Enzo90910 · 03/05/13, 5:23 AM

Looks like a 8.3% buff to everything but poisons, hmmm something like a 3-4% buff overall (likely less by end of T15)?

fierydemise · 03/05/13, 3:37 PM

Looks like all that work on RPPM proc rates as a function of ilvl was for not (at least in the general case). Blue Post:

For clarification, does the last statement about the proc rate multipliers apply to all the agility trinkets or just the Rune of Re-Origination?

Just Rune of Re-Origination.

Impatientus · 03/05/13, 5:20 PM

Originally Posted by Enzo90910

Looks like a 8.3% buff to everything but poisons, hmmm something like a 3-4% buff overall (likely less by end of T15)?

it's all damage, poisons included. so 8.33% on top of (or rather multiplied by) the ~3.5% buff from Dispatch and Envenom.

the RPPM nerf will hit every proc it's used in, meaning weapon enchants, trinket procs, the works. It remains to be seen what impact this will have on our simulated dps.

Astrylian · 03/05/13, 6:02 PM

Originally Posted by Impatientus

it's all damage, poisons included.

No it's not. Assassin's Resolve applies only to damage that requires a dagger equipped.

EDIT: Nevermind, looks like this got fixed. It used to work this way, but no longer seems to. Apologies for the confusion.

Grimwolf · 03/05/13, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

No it's not. Assassin's Resolve applies only to damage that requires a dagger equipped.

Are you sure about that?

While wielding daggers, your maximum Energy is increased by 20 and your damage is increased by 20%.

Assassin's Resolve requires daggers, but the tool-tip seems to say all damage. Of course, I've been known to misread tool-tips..

*The 20% damage increase is from the old tool-tip on wowhead. It hasn't been updated yet.

Nalinaa · 03/06/13, 3:54 AM

Originally Posted by Grimwolf

Are you sure about that?

Assassin's Resolve requires daggers, but the tool-tip seems to say all damage. Of course, I've been known to misread tool-tips..

*The 20% damage increase is from the old tool-tip on wowhead. It hasn't been updated yet.

It's all damage you deal, you can test it by hitting the dummy with one on dagger, then switching it for anything but a dagger and the poison damage goes down about 20% (more or less based on if you lose mastery/agi), same with venomous vim and I am sure it will be the case for all other damage. Not just damage that the daggers exclusively deal.

Not that it matters all that much because that PTR change never made it to live, so things will be they same as they were in regards to Assassin's Resolve.

Khazilein · 03/06/13, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Nalinaa

It's all damage you deal, you can test it by hitting the dummy with one on dagger, then switching it for anything but a dagger and the poison damage goes down about 20% (more or less based on if you lose mastery/agi), same with venomous vim and I am sure it will be the case for all other damage. Not just damage that the daggers exclusively deal.

Not that it matters all that much because that PTR change never made it to live, so things will be they same as they were in regards to Assassin's Resolve.

Of course it did. Just the tooltip is not changed till the next real mini patch.
Its 30 % and for every damage, including poisons and everything.

Just tested it on a dummy. ~25k ticks of deadly poison with 2 daggers, with 1 fist+1dagger ~19k so thats about 30 %

Vikken · 03/06/13, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Khazilein

Of course it did. Just the tooltip is not changed till the next real mini patch.
Its 30 % and for every damage, including poisons and everything.

Just tested it on a dummy. ~25k ticks of deadly poison with 2 daggers, with 1 fist+1dagger ~19k so thats about 30 %

Just to sort the confusion, rolling restarts this morning could have applied hotfixes. Rygarius was tweeting that he was compiling them last night.

Using ST (it's static damage), some vendor daggers and no procs and whatnot, damage was 18245. After unequipping weapons, damage was 14034. 14034 x 1.3 = 18244.

So, to confirm, It appears that the (30%) buff is working now.

EDIT: I RETESTED AFTER THE HOTFIX NOTES, AND IT APPEARS THAT THE MULTIPLIER IS NOW 1.25, WHICH AGREES WITH THE HOTFIX NOTES.

dommy · 03/07/13, 3:16 AM

I apologize if this has been discussed, but I acquired [Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault] and [Renataki's Soul Charm] and after about an hour of messing around with it, including a 15 minute session on dummies, it seems as though the procs don't stack. Regardless of whether this is intended or something that needs to be corrected, I refunded the former just in case. I guess this might serve as a "heads up" to anyone thinking of purchasing the VP trinket.

If anyone has seen a blue post addressing the stacking procs, please let me know.

Thanks in advance.

Saan · 03/07/13, 10:24 AM

Was it the issue that they simply were unable to go off at the same time, or was the issue that, when they did both proc, one took precedence over the other? If the latter, which one took precedence, and was there a pattern to it? If the former, did you try and determine if they share the same ICD?

dommy · 03/07/13, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by Saan

Was it the issue that they simply were unable to go off at the same time, or was the issue that, when they did both proc, one took precedence over the other? If the latter, which one took precedence, and was there a pattern to it? If the former, did you try and determine if they share the same ICD?

According to a blue post, [Renataki's Soul Charm] has a real proc per minute of 0.56 with an ICD of only 22 seconds. Someone on wowhead did math and because of the rppm of 0.56, it realistically procs every 107s ((1 / 0.56) * 60) = ~107s, which is roughly about what the ICD is of [Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault]: 105s.

Now that you mention it, while I was testing them out on a dummy, after the initial buff from [Renataki's Soul Charm], I never saw it again, so you could be correct in that [Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault] took precedence. Also, if the 105s ICD and the ~107s proc are strictly enforced, then theoretically both buffs should trigger almost right after the other. However, I did not personally experience this.

fierydemise · 03/07/13, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by dommy

Also, if the 105s ICD and the ~107s proc are strictly enforced, then theoretically both buffs should trigger almost right after the other.

That assumption right there is your problem, RPPM trinkets can exhibit quite substantial deviation from their expected proc interval because there is no ICD to enforce the interval, instead you simply have a low chance chance to proc on every ability.

dommy · 03/07/13, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by fierydemise

That assumption right there is your problem, RPPM trinkets can exhibit quite substantial deviation from their expected proc interval because there is no ICD to enforce the interval, instead you simply have a low chance chance to proc on every ability.

I didn't intend it to be an assumption and tried to qualify the statement by saying "if the cooldowns are strictly enforced." If you're right in that there's just a super low proc chance, then I guess my concern is that I never experienced a simultaneous proc while experimenting with both trinkets. Even with low proc chances, I think I should have seen it at some point. And that alone was enough for me to refund the rep trinket.

fierydemise · 03/07/13, 12:45 PM

Also you are not counting the impact of haste on the proc interval. RPPM procs/second = RPPM*haste/60 so seconds per proc would be 60/(RPPM*haste). Given your 19.72% haste the expected proc interval would be just under 90 seconds.

Simonhowl · 03/08/13, 3:26 AM

@dommy
Also if you refer to the 522 ilvl Renataki's Soul Charm then the proc rate will be lower still due to the way the new ilvl proc scaling works, which in turn would raise the average proc interval.

The proc frequency changes based on the ilvl of the trinket:

541 ilevel = 112.88% proc multiplier
535 ilevel = 106.74% proc multiplier
528 ilevel = 100.00% proc multiplier
522 ilevel = 94.56% proc multiplier
502 ilevel = 78.49% proc multiplier
463 ilevel = 54.57% proc multiplier

Proc rate multiplied by 0.1 for non-agility specs. Proc rate multiplied by 0.25 against player controlled units. Proc rate multiplied by 1/(1.15^((528-ItemLevel)/15) for the various Item Level versions of the trinket.

Source:
PTR Class and Set Bonus Issues, Part III - Forums - World of Warcraft