Dontmindme

I believe it has become time for a new topic. This will allow me to update the first few posts with current information about the DPS Spreadsheet, given I'm now maintaining it.

If you do not have Microsoft Excel and would like to view the spreadsheet, simply use OpenOffice Calc available free for download at: OpenOffice.org: Home. But the Macros only work in Microsoft Excel.

Macintosh users using Excel for Mac should use the NA version.
The only difference is the Import from the Wow Armory does not function on a Mac so had to be removed.
Currently there is also a problem with the Combo boxes for Talents/Gear/Options/Buffs. These and their associated Buttons will cause an error in Excel for Mac. (Of course, Excel for Mac 2008 won't work with any Macros)

It should also be noted that in order to use the Armory Import, one may have to download MSXML6, a microsoft library. There is a link to this library at the location below.

All the basic features should work in Open Office.

Get the current Spreadsheet at:
http://rogue.raidcal.com/
Thank you Daysha for the hosting.

In further news...
I've decided to occasionally upload my current working version (Excel only). This should have all fixes (and some upgrades) up to the date listed. Of course it could also have undiscovered bugs from new coding. The Excel version still works in Open Office last I knew (just need to deal with the Copy buttons). Mac is a little more problematic.

I believe it "may" be made to work with as few as the following steps:
1) Go to Tools-->Macro-->Visual Basic Editor. In the Visual Basic Editor, go to Tools-->References and uncheck Microsoft XML, v6.0 if it will let you.
2) Cut the Import from Wow Armory button on the Gear _ Buffs sheet


2.4.2.2 dmm/sp00n
Added
Defense to the (Unmodeled) items section.
Unused talent point counter.
Integrated talents, defense and boss level into parry rate.
Integrated defense into miss rate and dodge chance.
Defense rating conversion.
Dodge details.
Mob option attacking from front/back.
Cloak of Unforgivable Sin
Defense to Chest enchant
Delicate Eternium Ring
Elementium Band of the Sentry
Glyph of the Defender
Greater Inscription of Warding
Hand of the Deceiver
Major Defense to Bracers enchant
Moroes' Lucky Pocket Watch
Nimble-foot treads
Slikk's Cloak of Placation
Shard of Azzinoth proc effect (as 45 DPS)

Fixed
Cold Blood for Instants
Helm list to include Wastewalker Helm and (Unmodeled) when all items options checked.
Issue with DPS details difference (was reporting difference with opposite sign).
Removal of more unbuffed references, hopefully resolving open Office issues.
Ghostly Strike option no longer increases damage done.
Buffed DPS no longer shows average Eviscerate damage if no Eviscerates are used.
Gem upgrades are again affected by metagem requirements.
Correct item ID for Figurine Shadowsong Panther
Elixir of Demonslaying now correctly only applies damage to Demons.
Importation issue with +4 stats enchant to bracers.
Importation issue with Heavy Knothide Armor on boots.


Past thread discussing this spreadsheet...
[Rogue] DPS Spreadsheet - Elitist Jerks

 

Dontmindme

FAQ

This will be the depository for Frequently Asked Questions, I will add to this list with questions frequently repeated...

Why does the spreadsheet say hit rating adds DPS when I'm already capped? My character sheet in game says my hit rating is X, but the spreadsheet says I have X + 79 hit rating?
The spreadsheet includes the talent Precision in the hit rating total adding 79 to the listed hit rating. Thus, hit rating caps at 442 without considering Precision. The best way to see if you are capped is to look at the Miss % at the top of the Gear _ Buffs sheet. If this says 0.0%, then you are truly at the hit cap.

Why does the spreadsheet say Item X is better than Item Y, when everyone says Item Y is better?
It's very likely one of two things is happening: either you are losing or gaining a set bonus; or you are losing or gaining the requirements to activate your Metagem. These should be the first things you check before posting such an issue. The Upgrade item function should now eliminate the Metagem issue when checking for upgrades, but still is vulnerable to set bonus changes. The next thing you should check are the various caps. Item Y might have a lot of hit rating or expertise which makes it the better item, but if the rest of your items bring you to these caps, the spreadsheet will not show that item in its full glory and may have an "inferior" item that lacks much hit or expertise as being better as all it's stats are 100% useful. Check that next. Finally, there is always the possibility its a bug. The spreadsheet is updated on a regular basis and if you have ever programmed anything, you'll know that any changes always have the chance to induce a new bug.

The Macros seem to be broken./I'm getting Macro error so and so.
First off, macros do not work in Open Office. Second, Armory import doesn't work in Excel for Macs so you need to use the NA version which has only this one feature missing. Now, assuming you are using Excel in Windows, there are 2 common reasons for this to happen. First, you need to install the library MSXML6 which can be downloaded where you can get the spreadsheet. The next issue is that your macro permissions are set too high. Because Macro can possibly be used to run malicious code, they are often disabled on many computers. You need to allow them to use them. You may also need to close the program and reopen it after making changes. Beyond that, I'd check the thread as useful advice to getting them to work (especially for 2007) is offered in the thread at various points.

Why can't I select daggers on the pulldown list?/Why can't I find item X on the pulldown lists?
On the Gear _ Buffs page, over to the right of the gear selections is a series of checkboxes and pulldowns. Cells Y44 & Y45 specify the types of weapons each list displays. The various checkboxes help limit the item lists to items you expect to be able to find or use. You will want to check that the appropriate boxes are checked before reporting a missing item. I should note that some items are not included because they are quite inferior to other easier to get items.

What should I do if I think I've found a bug?/I have a suggestion.
First, you should check the next post below and see if it's on the list. Next, you should check this thread (or for a little bit as this thread is new) the previous thread to make sure it has not already been discussed. Then, post it to this list. In the case of the spreadsheet throwing errors, please include whether you are using a Mac or PC.

Why does the spreadsheet say a Hemo (or Shadowstep) build does more dps than Combat Swords?
Since it is well acknowledged that Hemo (or Shadowstep) builds will be inferior to Combat Swords for personal DPS at all levels, the "Include Hemo Debuff DPS Estimate?" is enabled by default. What this does is add an estimate based on the use of 100% of your Hemo charges by the raid to your DPS. Essentially your DPS totals now become personal DPS + the raid contribution of the Hemo Debuff. This is useful for those Rogues who are willing to sacrifice personal DPS for the overall benefit of the raid. If at some point your Hemo dps is less than Combat Swords, even with the raid contribution, you'd be better off switching.

If you wish to see what your subtlety build should look like for personal DPS, go to the Talent page, to the right of the talents there are options including "Include Hemo Debuff DPS Estimate". Turn this to "No". Then you should go to the Buffs on the Gear Buffs page and enable Hemorrhage under the Boss Debuffs as well as the # of raiding Hemo Rogues. This estimate is currently based on 25-man raid content so you would likely use more charges for yourself in 10-mans, 5-mans or soloing. I may expand the options in the future.

 

Dontmindme

Current Development

Here I will list reported bugs and other items on the to do list. Fix notes are primarily for my own reference.

Fixed/Changed in Working Copy
Changed
Boss Armor Estimates fonts changed back to 9 pt
Twin Blades now based on proc mechanics (1 PPM - 45 second cooldown)
With the upcoming availability of gems from badges, default fill-in gem changed to Glinting Pyrestone
Fixed
Bug with gems from Armory Import
Sunder Armor/Expose Armor formulas
Saved Builds issue overwriting first name in list
Stat block % changes to be compatible with Open Office
Incorrect references in Extra Attacks block

Bug List

Priority
1) Work on NextStat formulas for OO AEP determinations.
2) PPM Proc improvements (old procs, 2nd Tier weapons).
3) WF modeling phase 3, extra attack power modeling. (done except for finishers, waiting for new cycles)
4) Resolution of Armor Penetration and Expertise using probabilities on/off rather than averages.
5) More DPS sheet work, tracing formulas, making sheet cohesive for next expansion.

Maybe if I find time
1) Find Mutilate/Expertise bug? Downgraded due to time.
2) Automatic or user-prompted gem selection for Upgrade Macro determinations. (including AEP determination)

Worthy suggestions - issues with time vs priority
1) Revisit Flametongue proc? Add Scorch debuff? {Post #442}
2) Condense Buff list with selection boxes for items on the same cooldown. {Post #128}
3) Add Dragonbreath Chili and Stormchops. {Post #130}
4) Split off the Buffs to its own page.
5) Gear Buffs page could use a revamp to reduce clutter and make it more usable.
6) Some debuff options could use more options like Expose Weakness (estimated uptime based on crit) and Hemo (contribution for 10-mans, 5-mans or solo use)
7) Add and split off separate Options/import page.

Maybe at some point
1) Add an option that allows use of PvP Resilience. {Post #154}
2) Factor in Armor reduction and Resilience into the (Un)Buffed DPS sheet Min/Max/Avg damage. {Post #160}
3) Open Office Macro functionality.
4) Expose Armor cycle modeling.

Worthy suggestions that are unlikely to be implemented in the very near future
1) Allow combining of "on use" items for DPS calcs. Given global cooldowns, the shear number of such items and the fact they may have unique synergies with each other, makes this an unlikely fix. If I come up with a novel way to implement such without doing so on a case-by-case basis, it might get upgraded.
2) Mac Armory Import. Unfortunately, the libraries that make this work more easily are just not part of Excel for a Mac. This feature is more likely to be implemented first for Open Office (which could then run on a Mac).

 

Optikalusion

First, another huge show of thanks and appreciation from all of us to all of you theorycrafters dedicated and skilled enough to create and contribute to such resources as the dps sheet and gear sheet. As knowledge truly is power, you make us not only better rogues, but better people!


And now, a question, or possible bug report.

What or how is the Ashtongue Talisman valued or calculated at? I ask because when entering a mutilate spec into the sheet, it seems to undervalue it greatly. At least, if I remove the trinket and enter a static crit value of 116 (which is an averaged 80% uptime), there is a huge value gained. For my gear and spec it seems to be valued at a static ~70.xx crit rating value, which seems awfully low for a mutilate build with 35% critrate.

Anyways just noticed this while playing around. I think I'll go ahead with a mutilate respec next week and see how the actual dps compares to the sheet.

Thanks again!

 

Dontmindme

It's a good question. Most of the PPM and percent proc items are modeled as an estimated uptime. Some of these values come from a long time back, some may not be as accurate for alternative builds. The truth is I haven't gotten around to going back over most of these. I am open to suggestions for either better ballpark estimates or more exact determinations where people find them drastically off.

 

Dontmindme

2.3.2.8 and 2.3.2.8NA are now posted...

 

Radmsc

Nice job on the new features of 2.3.2.8, allthough there is a minor bug in it.

When I search for upgrades, I select the option to look for upgrades in Buffed DPS. Now when I hit the button to look for upgrades it also puts items in the comment of the cell which are only an upgrade in Unbuffed DPS. I hope you are able to fix this in one of the upcoming versions.

 

Dontmindme

Ah, it looks like its a byproduct of cutting out the extra columns on the Gear Sheet to make the page look a little less clunky. The Upgrade functionality is looking in the wrong cell now for the option pulldown and defaulting to an upgrade to either. It is also not looking in the correct place for "Minimum DPS" and defaulting that to always be 0. Easily fixable, but I think I might want to assign a name to that cell so that it won't keep screwing up every time that cell moves.

In the meantime, the problem can be temporarily fixed by inserting 3 columns between the Gear Info and the Update Search options box (Chose Shift Cells Right). The Upgrade Macro is looking for the Minimum DPS in cell U40 and the "Buffed DPS" in cell AB40.

Either that or enter =R40 in Cell U40 and =Y40 in cell AB40 of the Gear buffs sheet.

 

Furtim

From what i can tell, the Meta Gem Enabled calc is also not correct.

 

Mikhael

Haste and -Armor are giving 0 AEP values for me. Not critical, but something that might need fixing.

 

Zeyk_Shade

Think I found another bug.

I input all of my gear/gems into the spreadsheet, but it still states that my meta gem requirement hasn't been met. 2y/2r/2b for the Relentless Earthstorm Diamond.

In game I know the requirement is met by the gear I have on, just doesn't match up on the spreadsheet.

Regardless, thanks a ton for your effort with the spreadsheet.

 

Dontmindme

Yeah, looks like of all the things I did (adding Macros, buttons, modifying code) the one thing that broke things was removing those dead rows in the middle of the gear sheet. I see the issue with Haste and -Armor AEP (same basic issue as with the Upgrade macro). I guess this could be quick fixed by inserting back in 3 columns in front of Column M running from Row 9 to Row 79. This would fix both the upgrade issue as well as the Haste and -Armor AEP. I'll have to go in and fix the macros for a more permanent solution.

As to Meta Gems, I'm not seeing a problem. I've switched gems to miss the requirement and the bonuses went away. I've clicked the MetaGem Require box off and the bonuses come back. Where is the sheet telling you that you have not met the requirements? I don't recall the sheet saying anything about whether you have met the requirements or not outside of the bonuses showing up in the cells following the Meta gem itself. So for the RED, if you see 12 show up in the Agility column, it's working. Please let me know if that isn't the case.

Now, maybe it's a good idea to do something to make it more obvious whether the sheet considers the Metagem in operation, but for now, I believe the only way to tell is if the bonuses are showing up in the column of the MetaGem itself.

 

Furtim

It was showing the Meta Gem slot as the color red, as if it was disabled, even if the gem was set as NONE.

 

Zurgat

Good work on keeping the support on this spreadsheet.
I'll have a look at the latest version.

No good news for Mac users + Armory yet i guess?


Woooo, that crashed pretty fast.
And a more couple pages long error log.

I selected the talents page, then clicked any of the options in the talent selection popup. (it looked interesting)
All it does is straight out crash. I'll send you the full crashlog by PM.

It seems the talent saving doesn't work on MacOSX

-= Random Ravings - RSS Feed =- Rogue and Hunter stuff here. As well as guides to get you trough your spare time.

 

• Rerox

First off: again great work on the usability of the sheet DMM! Big thanks for that! Never thought to see such features like saving equipment-sets in the sheet.

About gems and meta requirements: one thing that I always find difficult to handle is the socketing of items already socketed in the sheet. You never see what socket-colors an item has when gems are already socketed in, that match the socket bonus. You always have to remove at least one gem from an item to see the socket colors. Might be nice if the Socket-Color could still be shown besides the Socketbonus (cells A13 ff).

Same goes for the meta: would be great if one could see at least what requirement is not met.

One last idea on the "saving gear sets" topic: wouldn't it be nice if we could load two gear sets in the sheet and compare the two gearsets against each other?

 

Left

Re-inserting those three columns in the Gear_Buffs sheet will affect the DPS calculations, so something isn't quite right. I imported my gear and I was getting 1278 DPS. Then, I reinserted the columns and my DPS dropped twice, ending up at 1207 DPS. After a bit of investigation, it seems that after re-inserting the three columns, the damage calcs are still somehow looking for Haste and -Armor in cells M78 and N78, respectively. Since these cells now contain 0's, but if I put the previous values in manually it works again.

EDIT: I figured it out. The grand totals are at the bottom of the buffs section, and they are simple column sums. Inserting three columns from row 9 to 79 only will misalign Haste and -Armor from gear in the bottom half of the sheet. Instead, you need to reinsert 3 columns from rows 9 to 141 (not 79), starting at column M. This should fix the macros and still preserve the correct calculations of summing Haste and -Armor from gear and buffs.

 

RTM

2 quick questions/notes on the spreadsheet:

1. I am using a Blinkstrike (*shakes fist at Tidewalker*) and the proc isn't modelled in the sheet. Not a problem, I just have to unhide the weapon sheet and add the proc info to the Blinkstrike entry (211, 1.7, 1 is what I use). On 2.3.2.8, the proc DPS does not seem to be carrying over to the Gear Buffs sheet- I make the changes and the proc DPS stays at 0.

2. Kind of in the same vein- is the proc from Hourglass of the Unraveller or Tsunami Talisman modelled in the sheet? It looks to me like they have a straight-up +32crit and +38crit +10hit bonus, respectively. From some rudimentary research it looks like the proc cooldown is 45sec. If you use a conservative estimate of 1.5ppm, that's a flat 33/38 AP which ranks the trinkets significantly higher than they are now. If that's already modelled somewhere then disregard, of course.

 

Rosvall

I'd love it you added other cycles to dagger for comparatives, Mostly 1snd/3snd/5r and 1snd/3r

 

Cygany

Thanks for all the work put into this tool!


I'm using the 2.3.2.8NA with OpenOffice 2.3 and noticed the following:

With the exception of chest gem sockets, the font color and background color for other items stays gray on gray. The drop down let's you select gems, and it is calculated correctly, the gem names just are not visible without changing the the color scheme.

 

magicp

Somehow this version is showing me that Talon of Azshara is a buffed upgrade to Blade of Infamy and that should clearly NOT be the case. I'm also seeing Stealther's Helm of Second Sight as an on-par upgrade to tier 6 helm? I saw that in the last version too and couldn't figure out what was going on, but it went away eventually so I never figured out what was happening and why that was possible. I'm wearing 4 pieces of tier 5 (everything but the chest) and only started occurring after I starting putting 4/5 tier 5 into the sheet.

Last, the upgrade selection box on the gear spreadsheet, no matter which option I chose, it's always showing me buffed and unbuffed upgrades. This is annoying because I really couldn't care less about unbuffed upgrades and don't even want to see them listed in the comment at all.

 

Dontmindme

For those with problems with the Meta Gems, are you all using Open Office? Or are you using Excel? This would help me track down what is happening. And, have you tried inserting 3 columns from Rows 9 to 141 just ahead of Column M? I'll get to the rest of the issues when I get home from work.

 

Furtim

I use Excel 2007 with the latest updates.

I'll try re-downloading and futzing with it.

* UPDATE *

Re-downloaded the spreadsheet, shifted the columns right, reset the gear, then imported my data from the Armory and now the MetaGem activation color is correct.

 

Dontmindme

Okay, so looking at issues in order...
1) Ashtongue Talisman of Lethality
Seems to be modeled correctly, except...
a) Somewhere along the line, someone decided that that the result seemed too high and nerfed it to 70% of it's calculated value. If I undo this nerf, it will be approximately 42.86% more dps than currently modeled. This doesn't seem very unreasonable comparing it to other trinkets. It currently seems rather undervalued, so I'm leaning to undoing the imposed nerf, but I'm open for comment.
b) The results are being added after the cycle module. The way it is currently being added should give a decent estimate of it's contribution nonetheless, but it will unfortunately not influence the suggested cycle. It will probably have to stay that way until I find time to integrate it's existence into the cycles themselves. Basically just an advisory to Seal Fate users that you might be able to drop down a cycle using it.

2) Haste, -Armor AEP and Gear Upgrade macro issues.
Inserting 3 columns of cells between Rows 9 and 141 just ahead of Column M (shifting cells to the right) fixes these issues.

3) Meta gem and gem cell coloring issues (Open Office)
Open Office seems to be doing something very very strange with Conditional Formatting. I see the problem opening it in Open Office and I still for the life of me cannot figure out why the Meta Gem is turning red. I doesn't do this with Excel (even if maybe it should be programmed to do so). For some strange reason, opening the same version in Excel where the Conditional Formatting is pointing to C##, in Open Office "some" of them are pointing to D## to look for whether to turn coloring on or not. I'll have to play around with it to see if I can get it to stop doing that.

4) Mac crash issue with the new pulldowns
Well, these new Macros shouldn't be doing anything that should break anything on the Mac. I'll be looking this over more closely. Unlike the MSXML issue with Armory import, these functions should be able to work on a Mac and given the usefulness of the feature, its a high priority.

5) Macs and Wow Armory
Yeah, honestly, it doesn't look good until MS decides to add that library. Now, given the weirdness with Open Office and some very basic Conditional Formatting, I'm having serious doubts about Open Office compatibility (and Macros are a big step further than ordinary spreadsheet features that Open Office supposedly should emulate). Now, I do know there are a couple Mac users looking into the issue a bit. If they find something, I'll explore it further.

6) Colored Sockets
It's something I've partially explored. I have a basic model to make it work (pretty easy actually) but if the socket order in items does not follow a standard pattern (and I believe I remember some weirdness), Armory Import will not be very compatible without a major rewrite of the item data system. It's on my to do list as part of the revamping of the Gear Buff sheet.

7) 2 Gear sets at once
Actually, with this new functionality (once I have it working on Macs). It shouldn't be too difficult to do that on the Item Compare page with the addition of a few Macros. Mac functionality comes first though.

8) Blankstrike, Hourglass, Tsunami
These are all actually modeled but they are added on the (Un)Buffed DPS pages. For example, Blinkstrike adds to extra MH Attacks as noted in Cell Q12. You will find Hourglass and Tsunami accounted for in the columns on those two sheets as well.

9) Additional cycles 1s/3r and 1s/3s/3r
They should probably be added, I agree. It's been on my want to do list for awhile, but I've been pushing it back in favor of other issues and upgrades. I'll try to give it a stab this time around, but if adding a couple rows breaks the cycle sheets (like removing 3 unused columns did) it will be pushed back some more.

10) Talon of Azshara vs. Blade of Infamy
I'm not so sure I'd call that clearly the case. Talon of Azshara has better non-weapon stats. The damage range is practically the same (so no difference on special attacks). The only difference is a small edge on white dps. It may be possible that Talon might be slightly better in some circumstances just from the extra hit rating.

11) Stealther's Helm of Second Sight
Yeah, that one's a bug. Looks like there is a minor bug with Armory Import regarding Meta-gem sockets. If you type "none" in the third gem socket (even if it's grey) the upgrade will work correctly again. Instead Stealther's is giving a N/A and apparently the upgrade macro is just copying the previous item's DPS when this occurs.

I can't give much of a timetable on fixes at this time, but I'll hope to have some of these fixed by this weekend. Adding these 3 columns back in will help many issues though.

 

morc

There seems to be an unreported issue with OH Proc DPS calculations?

If I select Thunderfury as an OH, it's proc type (5) should appear in AM23 on the weapons page. Instead it's reporting a weapon stat and killing the calculation.

I'm guessing this means that all weapons with proc DPS are being misrepresented.

I think this is due to the columns being shifted at some point, P-type was column W and is now AA.

 

hannigaholic

Just a little note that the Metagem bug doesn't only apply to Armory importing. If I manually change from using my Netherblade Helm to the Grimgrin Faceguard the same thing happens and the same fix you just mentioned works, at least when using Openoffice.