Not sure if i missed something but i was going through the gear available to me to see what would be the best arangement for me and what im using currently is
MH - Vengeful Gladiator's Slicer
OH - Merciless Gladiator's Quickblade
Ranged - Arcanite Steam Pistol
Helm - Netherblade Facemask (Relentless, Crimson Sun)
Neck - Choker of Vile Intent
Shoulders - Deathmantle Shoulders(Glinting, Shifting (tanzanite))
Back - Drape of the Dark Reavers
Chest - Nether Shadow Tunic (Glinting, Glinting, Shifting)
Wrist - Insideous bands (Glinting)
Gloves - Slayer's Handguards (Glinting)
Waist - Belt of One-Hundred Deaths (Rigid, Rigid)
Legs - Netherblade Breeches (Shifting, Glinting, Glinting)
Boots - Ninjah's Tabi Boots (Shifting, Glinting)
Ring - Ring of a Thousand Marks
Ring - Band of Devastation
Trinket - Warp Spring Coil
Trinket - Bloodlust Brooch
This is giving me 328 hit 1897 AP 24.21% cirt 15 expertise
According to the sheet this setup is preferable
MH - Vengeful Gladiator's Slicer
OH - Merciless Gladiator's Quickblade
Ranged - Arcanite Steam Pistol
Helm - Netherblade Facemask (Relentless, Crimson Sun)
Neck - Choker of Vile Intent
Shoulders - Shoulderpads of the Stranger (Glinting)
Back - Drape of the Dark Reavers
Chest - Nether Shadow Tunic (Glinting, Glinting, Shifting)
Wrist - Insideous bands (Rigid)
Gloves - Slayer's Handguards (Glinting)
Waist - Belt of One-Hundred Deaths (Rigid, Rigid)
Legs - Netherblade Breeches (Shifting, Glinting, Glinting)
Boots - Ninjah's Tabi Boots (Shifting, Glinting)
Ring - Ring of a Thousand Marks
Ring - Band of Devastation
Trinket - Warp Spring Coil
Trinket - Bloodlust Brooch
This would give me 328 hit 1893 AP 23.28% crit 23 expertise
Im just confused as to why the Spreadsheet is telling me gimp my crit down to around 23.28 % just for the extra expertise it just doesnt make much sense to me as im sure its always been know to have balanced stats instead of maxing out on one.
If anyone could shed some light on this it would be a great help.
I have noticed somthing odd recently in the spreadsheet. Below is the most recent example:
I have the Shadowtooth Trollskin Curiass chest with +6 stats. I was modeling the Bloodsea Brigand's Vest (2 glinting noble and shifting tan). My unbuffed dps increases by 6.20... however, my buffed dps only increases by 5.63.
I do not understand why buffed dps would go down? It seems like buffed dps should at a minimum match unbuffed dps.
I do not understand why buffed dps would go down? It seems like buffed dps should at a minimum match unbuffed dps.
Buffs change the value of certain stats. Some stats scale much better than others. Like hit scales a lot better with WF. What you're probably seeing is something like the hit/crit you gain didn't scale as fast to mitigate the AP loss when buffed.
Im just confused as to why the Spreadsheet is telling me gimp my crit down to around 23.28 % just for the extra expertise it just doesnt make much sense to me as im sure its always been know to have balanced stats instead of maxing out on one.
If anyone could shed some light on this it would be a great help.
Expertise is by far the best stat for melee DPS. It reduces parries, dodges, and blocks -- all things that hurt our DPS. It is also the most expensive stat for melee, meaning that if you gear specifically for it, you'll be gimping other stats heavily. A 1% loss in crit is a minor loss when compared to a 2% (I think, I dont remember the exact conversions) reduction in dodges/parries/blocks.
Expertise is by far the best stat for melee DPS. It reduces parries, dodges, and blocks -- all things that hurt our DPS. It is also the most expensive stat for melee, meaning that if you gear specifically for it, you'll be gimping other stats heavily. A 1% loss in crit is a minor loss when compared to a 2% (I think, I dont remember the exact conversions) reduction in dodges/parries/blocks.
1) Expertise doesn't reduce blocks, only dodge and parry
2) You shouldn't be getting blocked or parried in a PvE situation anyway.
3) It's not particularly expensive at all, 4 expertise (1% dodge/parry reduction) costs exactly as much as 1% hit.
Even with dodge reduction as its only purpose, expertise is a solid stat, pretty much exactly on par with hit rating for rogues, just with an independent cap.
Not sure if i missed something but i was going through the gear available to me to see what would be the best arangement for me and what im using currently is
This is giving me 328 hit 1897 AP 24.21% cirt 15 expertise
According to the sheet this setup is preferable
Shoulders - Shoulderpads of the Stranger (Glinting)
Wrist - Insideous bands (Rigid)
Legs - Netherblade Breeches (Shifting, Glinting, Glinting)
This would give me 328 hit 1893 AP 23.28% crit 23 expertise
Im just confused as to why the Spreadsheet is telling me gimp my crit down to around 23.28 % just for the extra expertise it just doesnt make much sense to me as im sure its always been know to have balanced stats instead of maxing out on one.
If anyone could shed some light on this it would be a great help.
Something doesn't add up here.
I shortened the lists to show only the items that changed, and the pants which I wanted to point out.
I'm really confused how swapping 10 expertise rating into your shoulder slot is taking you from 15 expertise to 23 expertise. You should have 21 in the first gear set with the vashj belt + talents + racial, and 23 in the second set with the shoulders, belt, talents, and racial. Was there supposed to be a different belt selected in the first gear set?
I'm also confused how you are putting 3 gems into [Netherblade Breeches] which has no sockets.
Shoulderpads of the stranger are better than Deathmantle, and the gem change in your bracers yields slightly better sustained dps at the cost of slightly lower dps in interrupted fights. Those are the only upgrades I can see from one set to the other.
Last edited by Trazhenko : 02/20/08 at 6:32 PM.
Reason: Noticed another detail( err, no I didn't )
Mongoose enchants seem bugged for me in the new spreadsheet, adds 60 agility to the mainhand and 30 agility to the offhand, shows up in the unbuffed stats column.
Mongoose enchants seem bugged for me in the new spreadsheet, adds 60 agility to the mainhand and 30 agility to the offhand, shows up in the unbuffed stats column.
Though I dont' use the spreadsheet, I'd venture that that's not a bug. Main hand Mongoose averages out to about 60 agility over time, and offhand about 30. Since you don't need raid buffs to proc Mongoose, it gets counted towards your unbuffed stats.
I'm pretty sure that was the main reasoning behind it. It completely alters how I'm going to gem next patch compared to what it was before. But hey the boots, for one, are a huge jump from nynja's or shahraz boots and the others are great upgrades.
Hello, long time user of the spreadsheet here with a possible bug report. I am using the most recent version of the sheet, in Excel. I didn’t see it on the list of known bugs nor on the recent pages, so I figured I would post it here.
I'm 99% sure that the spreadsheet is not taking into account the Slayer 2pc bonus. I found this out when I was trying to compare the 2pc bonus to the 4 pc bonus. Test it yourself by changing cells X34 and X35 on the Gear_Buffs tab to TRUE. The 2 pc will do nothing, but the 4 pc will show an increase.
After A LOT of poking around, I believe I’ve found the cause and the solution to the issue. It is caused by having a .3 hard coded into the cycle rotation sheets, as opposed to using the sndfact variable that is controlled by the slayer set bonus.
Alot of cells in here need to be fixed, because there are so many cycles, but it's all the same change.
Starting in cell H173 on the Buffed Cycles sheet, change it to read:
=$T$6*(sndfact-1) *MIN(D173,E173)
As I said previously, it had .3 hard coded in that spot, thus Slayer 2pc. never made a difference.
This change needs to occur in almost every cell in that column down to row 281. It also needs to happen on the Unbuffed Cycles Sheet.
On a side note, for me, it seems the sheet says the 2pc is a 1.99% buffed DPS upgrade by its self, whereas the 4pc is only worth 1.84% upgrade. It might also be worth noting that I have already included the 15% bonus crit chance for Mutilate in my sheet, but that’s something completely unrelated to this bug.
Hopefully this helps and is fixed in the next release!
If you intend to pve get sword/sword. If not get Mace/Mace or Mace/Dagger so you have the option of going maces if the need arises on a later date for pvp specs. For shadowstep Dagger offhand is better due to cheaper shiv and poison proc. Average damange on First and Swords are identical; from an aesthetics standpoint only the daggers look cool.
I believe there is also a problem with how the talent murder is calculated. Simply by adding it, it shows more than a 3% increase in damage. It should only be a 2% increase, just like how the hunter buff, Ferocious Inspiration, is just a 3% bonus.
Having investigated further, I believe the cause of the problem is that murder’s damage bonus is counted twice over in the case of crits, and quad counting it in the case of SnD damage. When a crit’s damage is calculated, it uses the base damage, and if murder is already applied to the base, it doesn’t need to be applied yet again. A solution to this problem follows:
Go to the Buffed DSP tab. Go to cell Q23, labeled "Crit Factor". If should currently read as:
You need to REMOVE the *Talents!E18 at the end.
That gets you half way there. You still need to fix the SnD damage.
Go to cell I5 on the same tab. it should read:
=sndps/M3*Talents!E18*(1+Ferocious*0.01*Ferociousimp)*(1+bloodfrenzy*0.02*bloodfrenzyimp)*(IF('Gear _ Buffs'!$B$135,1.1,1))*(1+'Gear _ Buffs'!B109*0.01*'Gear _ Buffs'!C109)
You need to REMOVE the *Talents!E18 in the middle there. Do the same to the unbuffed DPS sheet.
Actually Murder double multiplies on crits. Thus, why it multiplies twice, that is the actual behavior and has been for quite awhile. If you do a search of the Roguecraft 101 thread, I believe your answer is there. I'll investigate the other matters.
I believe there is also a problem with how the talent murder is calculated. Simply by adding it, it shows more than a 3% increase in damage. It should only be a 2% increase, just like how the hunter buff, Ferocious Inspiration, is just a 3% bonus.
Having investigated further, I believe the cause of the problem is that murder’s damage bonus is counted twice over in the case of crits, and quad counting it in the case of SnD damage. When a crit’s damage is calculated, it uses the base damage, and if murder is already applied to the base, it doesn’t need to be applied yet again. A solution to this problem follows:
Go to the Buffed DSP tab. Go to cell Q23, labeled "Crit Factor". If should currently read as:
You need to REMOVE the *Talents!E18 at the end.
That gets you half way there. You still need to fix the SnD damage.
Go to cell I5 on the same tab. it should read:
=sndps/M3*Talents!E18*(1+Ferocious*0.01*Ferociousimp)*(1+bloodfrenzy*0.02*bloodfrenzyimp)*(IF('Gear _ Buffs'!$B$135,1.1,1))*(1+'Gear _ Buffs'!B109*0.01*'Gear _ Buffs'!C109)
You need to REMOVE the *Talents!E18 in the middle there. Do the same to the unbuffed DPS sheet.
Enjoy. Murder is now valued appropriately.
Actually, Murder *IS* more than a 2% benefit. The spreadsheet is partially correct in its seemingly wrong way of calculating for murder twice on crits. When you crit, you DO get the murder benefit twice. Test it out on rats with kick if you want.
The quad-counting SnD thing sounds like a bug however.
If you intend to pve get sword/sword. If not get Mace/Mace or Mace/Dagger so you have the option of going maces if the need arises on a later date for pvp specs. For shadowstep Dagger offhand is better due to cheaper shiv and poison proc. Average damange on First and Swords are identical; from an aesthetics standpoint only the daggers look cool.
Yeah, I knew the dagger is better for pvp; really I'm looking for the best pve upgrade at the moment.
So i'm confused, will my gear scale to where Fist/Sword will be better? or does the spreadsheet just model it wrong and it is better? What's the approximate gear level to where fist/sword excels? With new welfare epix and such I'm sitting at around a t5 level, just without the t5 so far =/
I'll go play around more with the spreadsheets, mainly wanted to ask the accuracy of both spreadsheets on this issue before I did.
My apologies; I did not know that but am elated to be corrected and know that the talent is more valuable!
However, I’m still fairly confident it is being counted one too many times for SnD. I’m also fairly confident about the slayer set bonus.
Actually, it looks like more than Murder is being double multiplied, everything after M3 needs to be removed. That said, I might not have time to get another update out for about another week as I likely won't have any time this weekend. Of course, I have been getting updates out almost weekly so a one-time two week span probably won't kill anything.
I'm not sure if its because I'm running the OpenOffice version, but doing this makes a ton of my damage boxes turn into #NAME?'s. Tried multiple ways and looked into it and I can't seem to see the problem, but I'm still relatively new to openoffice.
I shortened the lists to show only the items that changed, and the pants which I wanted to point out.
I'm really confused how swapping 10 expertise rating into your shoulder slot is taking you from 15 expertise to 23 expertise. You should have 21 in the first gear set with the vashj belt + talents + racial, and 23 in the second set with the shoulders, belt, talents, and racial. Was there supposed to be a different belt selected in the first gear set?
I'm also confused how you are putting 3 gems into [Netherblade Breeches] which has no sockets.
Shoulderpads of the stranger are better than Deathmantle, and the gem change in your bracers yields slightly better sustained dps at the cost of slightly lower dps in interrupted fights. Those are the only upgrades I can see from one set to the other.
Sorry was In a real rush when i posted this
ment to have Don Alejandros as my current gear not the One hundred deaths,
and the pants shouldnt have any gems that was a weird 1 coz i dont remember typing that.
Anyway i think i understood the value of changing the 1% crit and a little AP for 2% extra hit chance from expertise, but i was thinking that the [Shard of Contempt] wouldnt this be one of the best trinkets in game for a rogue especialy for a human as its got about 5% hit on 1 item.
Not sure if its been updated for the 2_4_0_3 spreadsheet but in 2_4_0_2 it showed that my [Bloodlust Brooch] was giving more DPS than the Shard
If you intend to pve get sword/sword. If not get Mace/Mace or Mace/Dagger so you have the option of going maces if the need arises on a later date for pvp specs. For shadowstep Dagger offhand is better due to cheaper shiv and poison proc. Average damange on First and Swords are identical; from an aesthetics standpoint only the daggers look cool.
Last I checked shiv was normalized.
Originally Posted by Harlon
Anyway i think i understood the value of changing the 1% crit and a little AP for 2% extra hit chance from expertise, but i was thinking that the [Shard of Contempt] wouldnt this be one of the best trinkets in game for a rogue especialy for a human as its got about 5% hit on 1 item.
Not sure if its been updated for the 2_4_0_3 spreadsheet but in 2_4_0_2 it showed that my [Bloodlust Brooch] was giving more DPS than the Shard
Expertise is only good until it's capped, As human with swords adding t6(or Vashj Belt for that matter) boots already puts you fairly close to the cap, try adding only the trinket and using a alternative pants/belt slot.
For reference, current information places Shard around the top trinkets with DST and Blackened Naaru Sliver.
However it's too early to be certain of anything, as PTR stats may be subject to change.
Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.
02/20/08, 5:05 PM
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