Hey...
I don't post a lot here, so sorry if I sound ignorant, which I am...
I'm a mutilate rogue, and I kinda quit PvE because I didnt want to play as combat, I mostly PvP now...but puncturing wounds on PTR made me really excited about mutilate again and its possible role in PVE...

so I figured I'd load up my spreadsheet and see how it would compare, and I found to my surprise that I had no idea how to edit it to reflect the 15% added mutilate crit, the functions and whatnot were all greek to me.

Can anyone walk me through changing mutilate to work like improved backstab, but with 15% rather than 30%?

Thank you very much!!

Pretty sure i already asked this but i couldnt find where and/or a reply.

Why does the sheet say that 8 stats is a better enchant for rings, the reason im doubting this is unless i got my math wrong

8 stats:
- 8 agility
- 8 strength

with BoK and Vitality the 8 crit is worth aproximately worth 9 Attack Power as well as 0.25% crit chance,
now add on the 8.8 AP from strength + BoK bonus thats around 18 AP from stats which is just under 2 dps according to 10.5 AP = 1dps.
From this we can say that 8 stats gives about 2 Dps when the crit bonus is included

This is the part im not sure i get the math right.

Now 4 weapon damage is applied to both weapons, now take a look at the main hand speed is 2.7 for the [Talon of Azshara] 2.6 for [Blade of Infamy] and [Vengeful Gladiator's Slicer]

Taking a look at a slower weapon like the Talon with a speed of 2.7
4/2.7 = 1.4 dps this is without slice n dice active
with slice n dice active the attack speed jumps to 2.08
4/2.08 = 1.9 dps

now this is just the main hand with slice n dice active and its already near the dps gained from using 8 stats
surely by factoring in mongoose procs, blade flurry, the added haste from the 2 set bonus from Tier 6, heroism, drums of battle, haste potions then the dps gained from 4 weapon damage will exceed 8 stats by a long way.
Now using a faster main hand like the season 3 slicer will increase this even more.

This is not including the offhand as well which also benefits from haste effects and the 4 weapon damage.
Looking at this 8 stats will give you a fixed dps value where as using 4 weapon damage will increase in dps terms based on the buffs you have/

Check out this post several pages back. In it I present a quick-and-dirty method for modifying the existing spreadsheet to work with the new Mutilate changes.

Harlon, it seems you're assuming the dps increases you'll recieve from hastes with +2 damage won't be recieved with +4 stats. By your own numbers, you recieve a nearly 2 dps increase from +4 stats, and a 1.4 dps increase from +2 damage (MH only). These dps numbers would both be augmented by SnD, haste potions, etc., not just the +2 damage enchant.

Thank you sir!

If the offhand is included then wouldnt the dps gained from that, push 2 damage above 4 stats?

Something like this. There is a speed point where +2 damage is better than +4 stats. For instance, if you select Blade of Savagery for both hands, +2 damage will come out on top. +4 stats is superior on a slow weapon, +2 damage is superior on very fast weapons. Basically, the increase your mainhand recieves from +4 stats over +2 damage is greater than the increase your offhand would recieve by choosing +2 damage over +4 stats.

I was wondering why in the 2.4.0.2 i had a better dps with Shadowmaster's Boots over Nyn'jah's Tabi Boots (like 5dps) and in the 2.4.0.3 the nynjah are better than shadowmaster's.

Other question, can we trust blindly the spreadsheet when it gives you a better dps with an piece of equipement over another? Cuz i know my class, i know how to get the best stats but i hardly can say which proc from a trinket or a ring, or something like that is better than another one. I have a great stuff, indeed a great raid dps but i want to get the best out of my class and my stuff

Are you using the same gems? Are you meeting your socket bonuses and activating your meta? Have the same enchantment? Not much has changed from 2.4.0.2, nothing I can think of for those items. Only thing that should effect stats is Ashtongue was fixed which might make a little difference.

Herm yeah actually my boo there was a change in the trink so in one case they were better and in the other that was the contrary.

Thanks for the quick answer i'll keep following that good work you're doing and try to post some feedback as i can

Is the modeling a bit bogus for mixed weapon types ?
(sorry if this question has been asked already, i am too lazy to read all pages of the thread and i read this thread from time to time)

I swapped in the xls sheet my off hand [Item not found!] with [Item not found!] and i'm getting a DPS decrease of (unbuffed/buffed) -14/-12 dps. If i compare the stats from the DPS the dagger has more weapon dmg, more crit, more hit and this should make the dagger superior to the sword.

cheers,
light

Short answer: No, the modeling is fine. Offhand sword > offhand dagger (usually), even if the dagger's stats are a bit better.

Long answer: I am not going to do your research for you if you are too lazy to read the numerous posts in this thread and the other two rogue theorycraft threads which speak to the benefits/disadvantages of mixing weapon types. (And trust me, there are many posts on this topic.)

I dunno if it was just me (I had a bit of user error importing from a previous version of the spreadsheet), but the "Combat Swords" default build in 2.4.0.3 was missing a few talent points.

Also, I have the funny sensation that this might have been mentioned earlier, but doing an item upgrade is erroring out on the helm when it gets to "Stealther's Helm of Second Sight", because the default selection for the third gem slot is blank instead of "none". To fix it, just pick that item, then set the third slot to "none", then flip it back to whatever you have equipped.

That's going to be an issue with the import. There was a previous bug in the saved Gear Builds (due to the import issue leaving the 3rd gem slot blank). This has been fixed, but unfortunately can be reintroduced when one imports builds from a previous sheet.

There might be other import issues when talent names get changed (fixed spelling, changed names, etc). The way the Talent Builds work, I believe if you switch out to a different build and come back to Combat Swords, it should fix itself.

Probably a simple answer but how am I able to select Maces/fists in the MH/ OH dropdown option. I can only see swords.

There is an option box to the right of the Gear page where you specify weapon types. In a future remodeling, I hope to move this somewhere much more intuitive.

Also a suggestion. Add an option for All weapon types in that selection box. That way to compare maces/fists/ and swords to each other you dont have to switch back and forth.

First off, the mods here really don't like people double-posting just because they had two separate ideas. I'm pretty sure that's in the forum rules sticky, but I could be wrong about that.

Second, is it really all that hard to look back 1 page in the thread and see if someone has asked the exact same question you did recently? The question about weapon types is asked on almost every page, while the suggestion for a "All Weapon Types" was brought up on the previous page and someone already explained why that isn't possible:

Thanks for the response DMM.

A suggestion which has probably been made before: remove Warp Slicer and Andonisus (and probably Infinity Blades and others I just haven't noticed yet). These conjured weapons can only be used in very specific locations and fights. It is fairly unhelpful (to me at least) to have them cluttering up my upgrade lists.

Hmm, spreadsheet doesnt care about hit cap anymore? Even at 423 hit rating total and percision, hit is giving +dps :P

442 is your cap then anyways.

Probably give those an option box to be unchecked in a remodeling. I know some people will want to optimize gear for Kael'thas, so Warp Slicer certainly needs to stay. I haven't had much time to work on the spreadsheet since last update, so the item/option reworking isn't very advanced.

This weekend I'm hoping to get a new version out with the following features:
1) Improved proc modeling (where some procs will no longer be just estimates and will adjust with one's stats).
2) Various bug fixes as mentioned in the thread.
3) Any new 2.4 PTR updates/items.
and hopefully...
4) Improved Armor Penetration and Expertise specific calculations that account for situations where procs bring these past the caps. Going to have to be specific code for all such proc items. This will also clear up the issue up with the use of averages for armor penetration.

Any user interface and general layout improvements will likely have to wait for a future update.