Error

There is an error on the latest spreadsheet (2405) for combat daggers. Specifically a bad cell reference to skBSddam on the Unbuffed DPS page in cells B8 and thusly C8. Here is the equation you are using today and then also the same equation in the last version. skBSbdam is in the first line. I couldn't find that reference.

Version 2.4.0.5a
Version 2.4.0.4a

Falkyrk, can you please enclose the excel formulas in CODE tags so that it won't stretch the page out? Thanks.

Not sure if that is what you are looking for. Must be a browser issue on your side?

That fixed it for me.

Perhaps your browser treated it differently, but mine (Firefox 2.0.0.12) wouldn't wrap the lines with the formulas, causing the page to be about 3 screen widths wide.

Thanks.

I think it was probably eveyone's browser but yours. Pre-edit, your post was causing the forum page to span an incredible width (due to no linebreaks in the pasted excel). Wrapping in code tags avoids that issue.

Sorry about that, forgot to assign the variable name to the cell:
On the Global Var sheet (you need to Unhide it Format-->Sheet-->Unhide
Cell B64: Enter skBSbdam in the white box up by the upper lefthand corner and hit enter. While you are at it, change the 150 to 170, it has a typo too.

This is one reason I'm leaving links to sheets one version back. As I try to get the sheet ready for the Expansion, typos can rear their ugly heads. The good thing is (assuming I make it through all the formulas before the expansion comes) that, for example, when new ranks of Backstab are introduced, I can change the stats in one location and it will automatically propogate through the entire spreadsheet. Same should work for Inscriptions as I can add them at the base formula section instead of tracking down every Backstab reference to fix it.

I'm also trying to use an organized variable system to help keep track of variable names. Anything starting with sk is skill based. tl is talent based, it is from an item, etc.

I didn't notice any problem myself...most likely you accidentally deactivated a meta gem when switching from Skulker's to Scryers'...as the spreadsheet would simply carry over the top two gems to the Scryers' unless you explicitly changed them, likely resulting the loss of a blue gem needed to activate the meta.

Using the latest version of the spreadsheet ( 2.4.0.5a ), I'm trying to input an "(Unmodeled)" MH Fist weapon ( [Mag'hari Fury Brand] ) on the Gear_Buffs sheet, but the Main Hand data isn't populating at all.

The stats are setup properly in row 147, B10 is set to "(Unmodeled)", and the MH option at Y44 is set to Fist, but row 10 is still showing all zeroes. In fact, cell X10 consistently shows (Unmodeled) as a Dagger, and if you place data in the MH Dagger row ( 145 ), the data shows up in row 10. But, it still treats the MH as a Dagger, with the lower normalization factor and inclusion of Backstab in my ability rotation. Any ideas as to a fix?

Good call, that did it. Thanks.

Since I haven't found an according posting yet, I did some tests.

Murder: 2/2
Aggression: 3/3
Surprise Attacks: 1/1
Opportunity: 0/5
Mobs affected by murder: Yes
AP: 1624 (was looking for a number divisible by 14; = 116)
Armor Penentration: 525
Weapon used: [Club] (1-3 damage)

Attacked Mobs (checked with a hunter):
Level 1 Wolves: 20 Armor
Level 2 Wolves: 21 Armor
Level 3 Boars: 46 Armor
Additionally some Level 1-3 Trogs and some rabbits (which seem to be affected by murder as well)

HITS: damage range
469-472

CRITS: damage range
1141-1148 (at least one rabbit had a 1148 as well)


Now to the formula, it seems to be additive. At least I only received conistent results if Murder is the only multiplicative value:

T6 & Murder multiplicative
(1+(1624/14*2.4) + 98 ) * (1.1 + 0.06) * 1.02 * 1.06= 473.332
(3+(1624/14*2.4) + 98 ) * (1.1 + 0.06) * 1.02 * 1.06= 475.841

Only Murder multiplicative & T6 additive
(1+(1624/14*2.4) + 98 ) * (1.1 + 0.06 + 0.06) * 1.02= 469.637
(3+(1624/14*2.4) + 98 ) * (1.1 + 0.06 + 0.06) * 1.02= 472.125


Now for the crits, I still haven't exactly understood how Murder plays into the formula here, could someone give me an according formula so that I can add it to my 'formulary collection'?

// Edit:
Forgot, it's not only Murder, but also the 3% crit metagem, which was active during the test.

I was able to fix the bad cell reference, but the overall outcome is still messed up. What triggered this for me was that on the Gear_Buffs page, under the UNBUFFED section, it's telling me my dps from backstab is 0.06. Obviously not correct under a backstab build.

If you would like to see what I'm seeing, just throw my armory in there I guess.
Toon: Falkyrk
Realm: US
Server: Blackhand

I've been tracing back the cell references as far as I can go. The problem appears to be in Cell X6 on page Unbuffed Cycles. I've highlighted RED the changes in the two equations.

Version 2.4.0.4:
Version 2.4.0.5:
If I go ahead and put in the old equation, the numbers appear pretty sound.

A similar bug, cell B68 in Globar Vars should be named skHmult. It's referenced by name in UnbuffedDPS, cell B8, and it causes a #NAME error when I plug my build / gear in.

Going backwards...
Slysprocket---
I'll make those changes/fixes for next version.

Falkyrk---
Hmm...strange, wonder how that happened...again will be fixed in next version.

Sp00n---
Once again good testing...confirms hypothesis on Slayer 4-pc.
Now, the crit issue...
I take it you have Lethality for an additive 30%. Murder adds another 1.02x to crit, RED a 1.03x. Something is off on the crit formula.
One formula which kinda works is
(2+Lethality*Murder*RED)*Murder*RED

Aldriana was looking over the crit modifier formula not too long ago in this post. Essentially, the formula used with Mace Specialization, RED, and Lethality appears to be something like this:

Crit modifier = (2*RED*Macespec - 1) * Lethality + 1

I can't say for certain where Murder jumps in, but for the moment I'll assume it's multiplied along with the first term. Assuming 5/5 Lethality in sp00n's calculations (which he didn't explicitly mention, but I don't see how he could possibly have such a high crit modifier otherwise):

Crit modifier = (2*1.03*1.02 - 1) * 1.3 + 1 = 2.43156

sp00n's observed values imply a crit modifier of somewhere between 2.432 and 2.433. This seems pretty reasonable to me.

That formula seems to work (although I find it quite weird).
1) I do have Lethality.
2) I don't have Mace spec (but Murder instead, as mentioned before).

Using that above formula:
(1+(1624/14*2.4) + 98 ) * (1.1 + 0.06 + 0.06) * 1.02 * ((2*1.03*1.02-1) * 1.3 + 1)= 1141.950
(3+(1624/14*2.4) + 98 ) * (1.1 + 0.06 + 0.06) * 1.02 * ((2*1.03*1.02-1) * 1.3 + 1)= 1148.001

Which is quite consistent with 1141 to 1148 damage for crits.

Hello. First of all i want to say a big thanks to all who created this spreadsheet. It has been a huge help for me.

i wanted to point out what seems to me as a mistake/bug. Currently in version 2.4.0.5a I found out in the buffed and unbuffed dps pages the haste multiplier for Blade Flurry (cell Q36) copies the value of the Snd haste (=Q35). Shouldn't BF be 1.20% ?

Again I want to thank for making this sheet.

Sorry if this was posted already, I don't feel like looking through 23 pages.

I was playing with builds to find the highest DPS for my gear (midlevel kara with fool's bane and glad's offhand sword, 1418 AP, 215 hit, 21.38 crit as 11/26/24) and the highest DPS specs for me were Hemo builds. THe highest one I found was 11/20/30 at like 599 unbuffed with no poisons, 11/26/24 was second at 578, then 16/45 with a glad fist mainhand at 560, and then 20/0/41 at 540. I'm wondering if something isn't being overvalued, like Dirty Deeds. Any ideas or is it just a rogue-ish anomaly with my gear level?

I've just downloaded 2.4.0.5OOb and it doesn't have the fix to Bosslevel variable.

I think if you reread the wording of the Lethality talent, it actually makes sense.

"Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ghostly Strike, Mutilate, Shiv, and Hemorrhage abilities by 30%."

If a hit does 100% damage, and a crit does 200%*103%*102% = 210.12% damage (before Lethality), then the "critical strike damage bonus" (i.e. the difference in damage between a crit and a hit) is 210.12% - 100% = 110.12%. So this is the value that should be increased by 30%, which is what that formula does.

Putting it that way, it is absolutely logical.
However, from a programmer's point of view, it still seems weird, making the formula so complicated for something such 'simple' like "hey dude, your big numbers will be 30% higher with that!".
Either they're geniuses and very very accurate with balance, or well... I'll leave that to you.

I mean, sometimes it's multiplicative (murder), sometimes additive (SA, Agg, T6), sometimes a mixture (crit bonus). It just doesn't feel intuitive.



Take a look at the formulae below. The actual used one really isn't the most appealing:
CURRENT
(1+(1624/14*2.4) + 98 ) * (1.1 + 0.06 + 0.06) * 1.02 * ((2*1.03*1.02-1) * 1.3 + 1)= 1141.950

ALL ADDITIVE
(1+(1624/14*2.4) + 98 ) * (1.1 + 0.06 + 0.06 + 0.02 + 2 + 0.03 + 0.02 + 0.3)= 1354.866

ALL MULTIPLICATIVE
(1+(1624/14*2.4) + 98 ) * 1.1 * 1.06 * 1.06 * 1.02 * 2 * 1.03 * 1.02 * 1.3= 1299.623

SIMPLE MIX (separate crit multipliers)
(1+(1624/14*2.4) + 98 ) * (1.1 + 0.06 + 0.06 + 0.02) * (2 + 0.03 + 0.02 + 0.3)= 1099.744


I'm not trying to diminish anyone's work, but in my opinion there would have been other ways to achieve balance insted of using such complicated formulae.

First thank you very much for the spreadsheet, it's really invaluable for any raiding rogue.

Recently I was getting ready to make the change from pve hemo to combat due to my raid's progression and was switching stuff around to min/max dps for fights like vash and kael that I'll be getting into shortly. But one thing struck me, Glinting Noble Topaz kept showing better dps then rigid dawnstone (+4 agi, +4 hit, vs +8 hit) Now when I was pve hemo I just wrote this off as hemo being more attack power driven build. Yet, as I checked out what the change to combat would be, I noticed even with combat potency 5/5, it was still telling me Glinting were best for me.

Is it my gear (I have exceptional expertise rating)? A bug? I'm a little confused, the wisdom I thought was hit was bigger gains for combat builds.

Just to expand on this, I don't want to make the claim that the formula I reposted above is definitively correct. It just happens to give a number that is pretty close to what we expect. However, I'm a little iffy about it because of the "Effect" auras gathered from the WOW database as shown on Wowhead:

Relentless Earthstorm Diamond
Apply Aura: Mod Crit Damage Bonus (Melee) (895)
Value: 3

Mace Specialization
Apply Aura: Mod Crit Damage Bonus (Melee) (1)
Value: 5

Lethality
Apply Aura: Add % Modifier (15)
Value: 30

Murder
Apply Aura: Mod Damage Done Versus (Beasts, Critters, Dragonkin, Giants, Humanoids)
Value: 2

Improved Backstab and Sinister Strike (T6 4pc set bonus)
Apply Aura: Add % Modifier
Value: 6

Surprise Attacks
Apply Aura: Add % Modifier
Value: 10

Aggression
Apply Aura: Add % Modifier
Value: 6

Namely, what I take from this is that T6 4pc, SA, and Aggression all use the same aura "effect" code, so it's pretty clear that they would stack in the same fashion.

However, RED, Mace Spec, and Lethality are all different, so perhaps something else is going on here.