DPS Spreadsheet - Page 27

rjstra · 03/27/08, 10:45 AM

I've just downloaded the 2.4.0.6 version. Thanks to Dontmindme and anyone else who created it.

I do however have a question. Assuming I've not being dumb which is entirely possible. The Items
button in the top right produces it's results in the Gear_Upgrades tabs. Clicking on gems and
enchants is obviously doing something similar. What I can't work out is where the results are going.
Where should I be looking?

Cyranis · 03/27/08, 10:59 AM

Sheet Version: 2.406 I used the reset buffs macro button that was provided.
I noticed that my unbuffed and buffed dps were different.
Unbuffed DPS 751.29 Buffed DPS 834.12
Cycle is the same for both, as is the listed stats.
If this is intentional, what purpose does it serve?

EDIT: I had not thought to check the windfury weapon buffs, Thank you.

After removing all weapon buffs, im still showing deviation.
Unbuffed 652.08 Buffed 658.77

Other DPS 20.76 Vs 27.45

Left · 03/27/08, 12:16 PM

Have you checked for Windfury on your weapon? It's a default buff in the sheet, as far as I can remember, but it will only count toward buffed DPS.

Roxamis · 03/27/08, 1:24 PM

Originally Posted by Left

What two pieces are you swapping? Stats have different weightings buffed and unbuffed; it could be that the 2pT4 is a large benefit to you unbuffed, but that the stats on the item you are swapping get better when you are buffed and make up the difference. (If the recommended cycle switches, it is almost certain that the set bonus is begin taken into account.)

Im swapping Tricksters Stickyfingers for Netherblade gloves...this was always an upgrade when it enabled the 2pc/t4 bonus in previous sheet versions

drumbum · 03/27/08, 1:44 PM

Originally Posted by Stax

Looks like you have Excel 2007....
It didn´t work for me with 2007 too, and i got the same error.
So i installed Excel 2003 again and now it is working fine.

I do not know if there is a possibility to run it with 2007.

I've never had a problem with the spreadsheet on Excel 2007. All the macros and buttons behave normally.

Balmong · 03/27/08, 2:02 PM

I imported my character into the latest spreadsheet (Balmong, Silver Hand) and found out that making Lethality 5/5 from 4/5 changed my combat rotation from 3-3s/5-5R to 3-4s/5-5R and lowered my buffed dps by a small amount. Just wondering why an increase in my crit damage would affect my combat rotation. And I took the 1 extra point from EA to get 5/5 Lethality, so that shouldn't be the cause for change.

Left · 03/27/08, 2:19 PM

Without looking at specifics, what probably happened is that the weighting or energy efficiency of one of your attacks vs. another changed. Increasing Lethality increases the damage that Mutilate does, possibly weighting it a little more heavily in the equation than Ruptures.

All that said, why it makes your DPS go DOWN is a mystery. My guess is that it has to do with the way cycles are currently calculated for Mutilate, which (as discussed earlier in this thread) does seem quite correct. Mutilate cycles as currently implemented have some other funny behaviors, such as Imp. SnD lowering DPS in some cases. Also as mentioned before, I'm trying to work on an improvement for Mutilate cycle modeling, but it is taking some time.

dinesh · 03/27/08, 5:43 PM

Originally Posted by rjstra

Clicking on gems and enchants is obviously doing something similar. What I can't work out is where the results are going. Where should I be looking?

In Excel at least, gem and enchant upgrade info is put into comments for the cells that are being upgraded. You should see a little red corner on the cell if there is an upgrade to be had, and if you hover the cursor over the cell a popup will tell you what the upgraded gem/enchant/items are.

kindath · 03/27/08, 6:08 PM

Thanks again for this awesome tool.

Just a couple things:

The Sunrage Shoulderpads are still in there, but in the game they have been changed to boots.
EDIT: The Sunrage Treads are on the spreadsheets, but they're listed under 'Sunwell' instead of '5 Man.'

The 2.4 badge loot currently has 'Sunwell' as its source, instead of 'Heroic' like the other badge loot.

It doesn't seem as if blizzard has any intention of adding the Delicate Fire Ruby, so that can probably be removed.

Would it be possible to make buffs act like gear? Like, one dropdown menu for the battle elixir 'slot,' one dropdown menu for the well fed 'slot,' and allow upgrade searching for those? I know it's not exactly difficult to check and uncheck boxes, but it's a little upgrade that might be nice.

Evolve · 03/27/08, 8:24 PM

The sheet doesn't seem to know that JC gems are unique-equipped, and is suggesting me to use them in every slot.

saedo · 03/27/08, 8:31 PM

Originally Posted by Evolve

The sheet doesn't seem to know that JC gems are unique-equipped, and is suggesting me to use them in every slot.

Heroic gems are no longer unique-equipped in this patch

fraserstanton · 03/27/08, 8:39 PM

Potential weird behavior:

I am specced Hemo Swords (11/28/22). The spreadsheet suggests 3s/5r snd cut for a cycle for me. If I change the "Include Hemo Debuff DPS Estimate" from Yes to No, my dps drops by 107 (expected) and my cycle drops to 1s/4r snd cut. Why does the suggested cycle change when nothing changed in my gear or talent spec? I guess it was just a little misleading to me because I have been doing 3s/5r when 1s/4r is probably better for me. I wanted to mention the weird behavior it in case it indicates another undiscovered bug elsewhere.

• Feist-Mok · 03/27/08, 9:09 PM

Originally Posted by saedo

Heroic gems are no longer unique-equipped in this patch

But JC BoP ones still are.

Cheshyr · 03/27/08, 11:45 PM

This is a newb question, and I apologize in advance. I've got all my data in the spreadsheet, and it says my cycle should be 5r. Does this mean no SnD at all; just spam Hemo until 5 point Rupture, then repeat?

drumbum · 03/28/08, 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by Cheshyr

This is a newb question, and I apologize in advance. I've got all my data in the spreadsheet, and it says my cycle should be 5r. Does this mean no SnD at all; just spam Hemo until 5 point Rupture, then repeat?

Yes, that's exactly what it means. I'm assuming you're using a PVP Shadowstep build.

It's impossible to sustain two finishers without Improved Slice and Dice, so that's why you are only seeing one. With a low hit rating and no Dual Wield Specialization, your white damage is much lower, and because you have Serrated Blades, your rupture damage is increased by 30%. The result is that Rupture is actually a better finisher than Slice and Dice.

20/0/41 isn't a very good PVE build at all.

Jakani · 03/28/08, 12:58 AM

Yes, that's what it means.

As a sidenote, it also means your spec is terrible for doing good DPS.

Dontmindme · 03/28/08, 1:13 AM

Originally Posted by fraserstanton

Potential weird behavior:

I am specced Hemo Swords (11/28/22). The spreadsheet suggests 3s/5r snd cut for a cycle for me. If I change the "Include Hemo Debuff DPS Estimate" from Yes to No, my dps drops by 107 (expected) and my cycle drops to 1s/4r snd cut. Why does the suggested cycle change when nothing changed in my gear or talent spec? I guess it was just a little misleading to me because I have been doing 3s/5r when 1s/4r is probably better for me. I wanted to mention the weird behavior it in case it indicates another undiscovered bug elsewhere.

Well, what the sheet is saying is the a 3s/5r cycle is better for raid DPS probably because you are getting more Hemos per time. Now without the Hemo bonus, its saying that for personal DPS, you would be better off short cycling the ruptures.

Dontmindme · 03/28/08, 1:23 AM

Originally Posted by kindath

Thanks again for this awesome tool.

Just a couple things:

The Sunrage Shoulderpads are still in there, but in the game they have been changed to boots.
EDIT: The Sunrage Treads are on the spreadsheets, but they're listed under 'Sunwell' instead of '5 Man.'

The 2.4 badge loot currently has 'Sunwell' as its source, instead of 'Heroic' like the other badge loot.

It doesn't seem as if blizzard has any intention of adding the Delicate Fire Ruby, so that can probably be removed.

Would it be possible to make buffs act like gear? Like, one dropdown menu for the battle elixir 'slot,' one dropdown menu for the well fed 'slot,' and allow upgrade searching for those? I know it's not exactly difficult to check and uncheck boxes, but it's a little upgrade that might be nice.

Remodeling the buffs is on the proverbial "to do" list. There are some complications because of the macros and saved builds, but its fairly high up on the list. Ahead of it includes cleaning up the 2.4 loot now that things are live and we start to know what's real and what's unique-equipped etc; buttoning down the DPS sheets some more in preparation of refining the trinket proc mechanics and actually implementing them; and very possibly some cycle work. Hopefully fairly soon.

kindath · 03/28/08, 2:39 AM

Originally Posted by Dontmindme

Remodeling the buffs is on the proverbial "to do" list. There are some complications because of the macros and saved builds, but its fairly high up on the list. Ahead of it includes cleaning up the 2.4 loot now that things are live and we start to know what's real and what's unique-equipped etc; buttoning down the DPS sheets some more in preparation of refining the trinket proc mechanics and actually implementing them; and very possibly some cycle work. Hopefully fairly soon.

Alright, thanks. I realize that modeling dps accurately is more important than simple stuff like this.

I've already changed the drop locations of the badge gear on the copy I downloaded, but I don't want to attempt to add or remove items because I'm not entirely sure how the menus and scans are populated and I don't want to risk breaking anything.

Oh, another note, the 'Sunwell Melee Ring - Badge Loot' has a name now, so that can also be replaced.

Have you determined yet why improved slice and dice and t4 2pc are decreasing estimated dps yet? I assume it would have to be some problem with the way the optimal cycle is calculated.

Zurgat · 03/28/08, 7:53 AM

A small feature request for the new version.

When you save your gear or talent set, currently the related popup does not switch to the new set you saved.
It'd be nice if it did this however, as this would prevent some accidental overwrites of gear setups.

Normally the next time you click save, it automatically grabs the "old" name instead of what you just saved the setup as, this feature would prevent that. Which i just did, quite frustrating.

• Rerox · 03/28/08, 7:59 AM

Short Question on Expertise and "capped stats":
I noticed, that even when reaching and surpassing the highest possible expertise cap (104) items with expertise rating still give considerable dps-increase. Is this just a coincidence with other stats or is expertise not capped in the sheet?

On a sidenote, wouldnt it be better to replace the "Resilience" stat in the unbuffed and buffed infobox at the top of the sheet with a -Dodge-%-calculation of expertise?

And another sidenote: would it be possible to highlight stats that reach the statscap (hit / expertise) somehow, so that it's easier to see when you get too much of a stat, esp. when working with different Mob-levels.

Zurgat · 03/28/08, 8:11 AM

Originally Posted by Rerox

Short Question on Expertise and "capped stats":
I noticed, that even when reaching and surpassing the highest possible expertise cap (104) items with expertise rating still give considerable dps-increase. Is this just a coincidence with other stats or is expertise not capped in the sheet?

On a sidenote, wouldnt it be better to replace the "Resilience" stat in the unbuffed and buffed infobox at the top of the sheet with a -Dodge-%-calculation of expertise?

And another sidenote: would it be possible to highlight stats that reach the statscap (hit / expertise) somehow, so that it's easier to see when you get too much of a stat, esp. when working with different Mob-levels.

I got Warp spring coil, belt of a hundred deaths, Season 2 sword, and the expertise talent. (16 Expertise by default)
If i equip the dragonscale blade, i get a decent increase, but don't reach the cap.
If i equip the Shard of contempt i see an increase, but don't reach the cap.
If i equip both the shard and the sword, my dps increases less than it would by just equipping the sword. It goes over the cap.
So the expertise cap calculation seems to work ok here. What exactly are you equipping that you notice an increase after equipping more?

I agree expertise / dodge would be more useful than resilience displayed.

Perhaps highlight the stat light blue or such if you are over the cap?

• Rerox · 03/28/08, 8:17 AM

Originally Posted by Zurgat

I got Warp spring coil, belt of a hundred deaths, Season 2 sword, and the expertise talent. (16 Expertise by default)
If i equip the dragonscale blade, i get a decent increase, but don't reach the cap.
If i equip the Shard of contempt i see an increase, but don't reach the cap.
If i equip both the shard and the sword, my dps increases less than it would by just equipping the sword. It goes over the cap.
So the expertise cap calculation seems to work ok here. What exactly are you equipping that you notice an increase after equipping more?

Argh I am so dumb ... I equipped Slayer's boots ... not noticing that suddenly activating 4-pieces-bonus might have any impact on dps

Zurgat · 03/28/08, 8:23 AM

Originally Posted by Rerox

Argh I am so dumb ... I equipped Slayer's boots ... not noticing that suddenly activating 4-pieces-bonus might have any impact on dps

DMM added a checkbox for that which you can use to calculate upgrades without the obvious set bonus interfering with your calculations.
It's a nice feature.

Also this might help with improving the shard modelling : http://elitistjerks.com/690086-post2456.html
[Shard of Contempt] tested 30 minutes. Single weapon.

3/28 19:55:22.750 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000543C43,"Pewsey",0x511,45053,"Heroism",0x40,BUFF
3/28 19:55:42.484 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000543C43,"Pewsey",0x511,45053,"Heroism",0x40,BUFF
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3/28 19:59:37.156 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000543C43,"Pewsey",0x511,45053,"Heroism",0x40,BUFF
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3/28 20:13:15.343 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000543C43,"Pewsey",0x511,45053,"Heroism",0x40,BUFF
3/28 20:13:40.593 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000543C43,"Pewsey",0x511,45053,"Heroism",0x40,BUFF
3/28 20:14:00.328 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000543C43,"Pewsey",0x511,45053,"Heroism",0x40,BUFF
3/28 20:14:55.000 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000543C43,"Pewsey",0x511,45053,"Heroism",0x40,BUFF
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3/28 20:20:00.156 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000543C43,"Pewsey",0x511,45053,"Heroism",0x40,BUFF
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3/28 20:21:21.718 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000543C43,"Pewsey",0x511,45053,"Heroism",0x40,BUFF
3/28 20:22:04.171 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000543C43,"Pewsey",0x511,45053,"Heroism",0x40,BUFF
3/28 20:22:23.968 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000543C43,"Pewsey",0x511,45053,"Heroism",0x40,BUFF
3/28 20:22:59.812 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000543C43,"Pewsey",0x511,45053,"Heroism",0x40,BUFF
3/28 20:23:19.328 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000543C43,"Pewsey",0x511,45053,"Heroism",0x40,BUFF
3/28 20:23:49.421 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000543C43,"Pewsey",0x511,45053,"Heroism",0x40,BUFF
3/28 20:24:08.875 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000543C43,"Pewsey",0x511,45053,"Heroism",0x40,BUFF
3/28 20:24:46.500 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000543C43,"Pewsey",0x511,45053,"Heroism",0x40,BUFF
3/28 20:25:06.234 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000543C43,"Pewsey",0x511,45053,"Heroism",0x40,BUFF
3/28 20:25:38.000 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000543C43,"Pewsey",0x511,45053,"Heroism",0x40,BUFF
3/28 20:25:58.015 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000543C43,"Pewsey",0x511,45053,"Heroism",0x40,BUFF
3/28 20:26:23.750 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000543C43,"Pewsey",0x511,45053,"Heroism",0x40,BUFF
3/28 20:26:43.500 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,0x0000000000543C43,"Pewsey",0x511,45053,"Heroism",0x40,BUFF

rj · 03/28/08, 12:18 PM

So, this most current version of the spreadsheet is telling me I would gain 9.47 raid buffed DPS by replacing my T4 helm with a T5 helm, losing the 2pc T4 bonus in the process.

That just doesn't seem right to me. 2PC T4 bonus is pretty big and I can't imagine the stat upgrade from T4 to T5 helm makes up for the difference in going from 1s/5r cut to 4s/5r cut.

Is there a problem here?