DPS Spreadsheet - Page 33

Adrianna · 04/07/08, 2:53 PM

Originally Posted by drelidan7

I am sorry if the title of my post is misleading, or if this post in any way violates any rules (particularly of this thread). This is my first post here (though I have been reading for months), and with it I would like to thank everyone that has helped to contribute to the high quality theorycraft available.

Last Wednesday was the first night that I actually looked at my individual DPS on a separate fight (as opposed to an entire raid), and the fight I chose was Magtheridon. I used the optimal cycle provided in the sheet, attempted to maximize time on the target, stacked cooldowns (haste pots with blade flurry and bloodlust brooch, AR separate so I don't have too much energy to spend), and did everything to the best of my capacity.

My gear is roughly all Karazhan gear with some ZA/badge pieces. My DPS on the fight was 1160. My question is regarding if there is any way I could improve that. The DPS spreadsheet states that my expected DPS is 1562 (with all of the raid buffs that I had available to me). Is the nature of the Magtheridon fight a bad test (due to having to switch targets and move from channeler to channeler), or am I doing something fundamentally wrong (following the recommended cycle of 1s/5r with 2t4). Or, is this an expected variance in the spreadsheet and should I just take the buffed DPS with a large grain of salt?

Thanks in advance.

Edit: I signed my post out of habit, and then corrected it.

The spreadsheet models a sustained fight with 100% time on target. There are several factors of the Magtheridon fight that would make your actual dps differ from a theoretical maximum dps: Running from channeler to channeler, getting tossed around (I forget what the ability is called, but it moves you around quite a bit), and potentially having to click cubes. Throw in cave-ins and the obligatory fire on the ground, and you have quite a few factors that affect your actual dps. On top of that, not all dps meters treat interrupted dps the same. A WWS parse of your dps would come a lot closer to your actual dps while *on* the target, while some of the in-game realtime parsers either display dps as a function of total damage divided by fight time, or your dps in the last X seconds. So it's unsurprising that your dps sits well below the spreadsheet estimate on this fight.

drelidan7 · 04/07/08, 7:38 PM

I will try to get my hands on a WWS parse if I can for my own information. Thank both of you for your quick responses.

Dontmindme · 04/08/08, 2:05 AM

New version up...mostly minor stuff.

Mutilate estimates should be more reasonable as there was a bug showing it's DPS too high.

Fists of Fury estimate is based on a rather short combat log, but looking at what was proccing it, it seemed offhand was proccing it at an equal rate to the main hand. The fact that the results were very close to 10% and many of the new Sunwell procs are also 10%, leads me to believe this may be correct. Still, much more testing should be done.

The Scryer version of the Shattered Sun Might neck was given a very rough estimate of proccing once per minute at one's crit rate (to roughly account for dodges, parries, etc as mentioned in the blue bug post). I just got Exalted yesterday and haven't yet done any personal testing and expect to have a better estimate in the next version. For now, the proc is in the rough ballpark.

Just in case, I'm leaving some past versions up, just in case I missed something. New cycle work is in progress, but not yet live.

2.4.0.7 & 2.4.0.7NA & 2.4.0.7OO

2.4.0.7 dmm
Added
Claw of Molten Fury
Fist of Molten Fury
Brutallus to the Boss Armor list with 7685 armor.
Fists of Fury bonus modeled as 10% proc rate, no cooldown.

Changed
Angelista's Revenge (renamed from Sunwell Badge Loot - Melee Ring and listed as Heroic)
Unmodelled items now linked to the Heroic checkbox instead of Sunwell.
Shattered Sun Pendant of Might (Scryer) proc (rough estimate)

Fixed
2nd Unmodeled ring now shows in the Ring List (instead of 2 Sunwell rings)
Unbuffed DPS is now correctly working without the Murder talent.
Fixed issued with Mutilate gaining undeserved eviscerate damage
Fixed bug with Eviscerate cycles resulting in higher than correct finisher dps.
Saving a build will now correctly set the combobox to the newly saved build
JC gems now correctly tagged as Unique.
New badge loot now attributed to Heroic.
Expertise is now correctly applying separately for MH and OH weapons.
Hemo debuff no longer adds to Rupture damage

Removed
Sunrage Shoulderpads (changed to boots during the patch)

darighaz · 04/08/08, 4:21 AM

A few procs are now shown as having nil values, Mongoose and deadly poison to be exact.

• Rerox · 04/08/08, 6:12 AM

Originally Posted by darighaz

A few procs are now shown as having nil values, Mongoose and deadly poison to be exact.

Only happens if you import from another sheet.
Happens to me, when I check to import "Options".

Parra · 04/08/08, 8:13 AM

Quick question about the expertise change. I noticed that the AEP value for expertise for me went down from 1.14 AEP buffed to 0.78 AEP buffed from version 2.4.0.5a to 2.4.0.7. Is this because of the mainhand and offhand being seperately calculated?

What exactly does this mean? Isn't the whole point of expertise that it is equal now, no matter what you are wielding. Also, my dodge/parry rating on offhand and mainhand (except for specials), are they not equal in the first place?

Also I noticed that the Shattered Pendant of Might for scryers adds 20 static critrating to the item. Is this correct?

Kytrarewn · 04/08/08, 8:56 AM

Something seems wrong here. From the buffed DPS portion of the Rogue spreadsheet, SS average non-crit and average crit seem to be, eh, 2x what they should even before armor?

My own calculation with the same stats:

3379AP
261avg damage mainhand (Blade of Infamy)

[(3379/14)*2.4 + 261 + 98] * 1.06 (aggression) * 1.10 (SA) puts the average non-crit, pre-armor/avoidance, at 1094.

Testing backstab hypothesis:

{[(3379/14)*1.7 + 261]*1.5 +255} * 1.06 * 1.10

1471.4461928571428571428571428571

Backstab with Swords:

{[(3379/14)*2.4 + 261]*1.5 +255} * 1.06 * 1.10

1766.9397428571428571428571428571

Adding Opportunity (why, I don't have the talent) makes it 1765 dagger-norm backstab, 2120 sword-norm backstab.

So it seems like something weird is happening.

EDIT: IGNORE, not happening in latest sheet. DLed the 2.4.0.6 at like 1:10AM last night and assumed it hadn't been updated for today AM. Was mistaken.

Zurgat · 04/08/08, 9:40 AM

Originally Posted by darighaz

A few procs are now shown as having nil values, Mongoose and deadly poison to be exact.

Originally Posted by Rerox

Only happens if you import from another sheet.
Happens to me, when I check to import "Options".

Importing "RogueDPS_2_4_0_6NA" into the latest version causes the DPS fields to go into "N/A" mode again.
Much the same as last time. Boss level is set to 73 now, but this does not appear to be related.

Dontmindme · 04/08/08, 10:49 AM

It looks like inserting Brutallus on the Boss Armor list is causing the problem.

Can be fixed by reseting the Skill Options (in order the defaults are):
0
Overall
30.00%
Yes
No
Finishers
No
Finishers
No

---------------------

Yes, something seems buggy with the AEP Macro. Fortunately, the Macro doesn't affect calculations. Probably when I inserted the OH Expertise.

Radmsc · 04/08/08, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Dontmindme

2.4.0.7 dmm
Added
Claw of Molten Fury
Fist of Molten Fury
Fists of Fury bonus modeled as 10% proc rate, no cooldown.

Maybe it has been stated before, but doesn't this have a 100% proc rate (with no cooldown)?
At least that's what wowhead says: Proc spell link

Originally Posted by Wowhead

Effect Apply Aura: Proc Trigger Spell
Proc chance: 100%

Edit: little typo

Left · 04/08/08, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Radmsc

Maybe it has been stated before, but doesn't this has a 100% proc rate (with no cooldown)?
At least that's what wowhead says: Proc spell link

Not really. A lot of effects that say "100%" on Wowhead are not 100%.

sp00n · 04/08/08, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Radmsc

Maybe it has been stated before, but doesn't this has a 100% proc rate (with no cooldown)?
At least that's what wowhead says: Proc spell link

Originally Posted by Vulajin

Originally Posted by Aaberg

As far as I could tell, I've set every setting as I should, but can't seem to find the fist weapons that drops in Mount Hyjal from trash, which was added in 2.4. I ofc. modelled them myself, just want you to know.
MH:
[Claw of Molten Fury]
And its counterpart, OH:
[Fist of Molten Fury]

According to Wowhead, the setbonus has a 100% proc chance, but would need further testing.
Wowhead - Fists of Fury

100% proc chance on Wowhead almost always indicates a PPM effect.

(obviously can't post only quotes, so some dummy text here)

Dontmindme · 04/08/08, 11:15 AM

Ok, the saved Option Builds are also messed up. If one opens up the OptionBuilds sheet and adds 1 to all the numbers following an "S" these get repaired. I still need to look at the Import Macro, see what I can do there.

------

The AEP Expertise is a bit more complicated. The AEP calc is only adding MH Expertise right now, so rather undervaluing it.

Romerz · 04/08/08, 11:17 AM

When wowhead says 100% proc - that means its PPM does it not ?

Dontmindme · 04/08/08, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Radmsc

Maybe it has been stated before, but doesn't this have a 100% proc rate (with no cooldown)?
At least that's what wowhead says: Proc spell link

Edit: little typo

There is a WWS linked in one of the Rogue threads (I think the Gear Spreadsheet thread). It's clearly not 100%. It's not much data at all but I looked at it to see which was more likely, a PPM effect or a % to Proc.

If it were a PPM effect, procs off MH attacks should be about the same as procs from OH attacks (despite more OH attacks) and specials should proc with a higher percentage than either auto-attack because Haste doesn't devalue the proc rate for specials.

I saw 11 procs from probable OH's and 7 from probable MH's (pretty close to the ratio you'd expect from extra OH attacks given MH is 2.7 speed and OH 1.5 speed). These 18 procs off 178 attacks is very close to 10%.

For specials I saw 4 procs in 56 eligible attacks which is less than 10%, but close enough it still could likely be. Given that the proc rate was not higher (actually a bit lower), this also makes a % based proc more likely.

Granted, this is a very short combat log (only 230-ish attacks for 22 procs), but it's all I could find.

It still very well could be a PPM effect due to randomness and the small sample size, but the data suggests a small preference to a %-based effect.

Dontmindme · 04/08/08, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Parra

Quick question about the expertise change. I noticed that the AEP value for expertise for me went down from 1.14 AEP buffed to 0.78 AEP buffed from version 2.4.0.5a to 2.4.0.7. Is this because of the mainhand and offhand being seperately calculated?

What exactly does this mean? Isn't the whole point of expertise that it is equal now, no matter what you are wielding. Also, my dodge/parry rating on offhand and mainhand (except for specials), are they not equal in the first place?

Also I noticed that the Shattered Pendant of Might for scryers adds 20 static critrating to the item. Is this correct?

Yes, that neck should have the crit rating removed. Legacy from the 2.4 patch when it was assumed Scryers would get crit rating.

Morgan-McG · 04/08/08, 11:39 AM

I'm relatively new to working with the Rogue DPS spreadsheet, but it seems I am having aproblem with my "miss" percentage. I have Precision 5/5 so my max needed +hit should be 363. Yet when I go over 363 hit I continue to gain DPS. My miss rate at 362 hit says I miss 5.05% of the time. Is this correct? I would think it should say 0.05% miss rate with 5/5 Precision.

Please explain where I am going wrong ...

Dontmindme · 04/08/08, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Morgan-McG

I'm relatively new to working with the Rogue DPS spreadsheet, but it seems I am having aproblem with my "miss" percentage. I have Precision 5/5 so my max needed +hit should be 363. Yet when I go over 363 hit I continue to gain DPS. My miss rate at 362 hit says I miss 5.05% of the time. Is this correct? I would think it should say 0.05% miss rate with 5/5 Precision.

Please explain where I am going wrong ...

The precision talent is adding ~79 hit rating to the displayed hit rating on the spreadsheet. My guess would be that your gear alone is only in the 280 range, hence the 5% miss rate.

Radmsc · 04/08/08, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Dontmindme

There is a WWS linked in one of the Rogue threads (I think the Gear Spreadsheet thread). It's clearly not 100%. It's not much data at all but I looked at it to see which was more likely, a PPM effect or a % to Proc.

If it were a PPM effect, procs off MH attacks should be about the same as procs from OH attacks (despite more OH attacks) and specials should proc with a higher percentage than either auto-attack because Haste doesn't devalue the proc rate for specials.

I saw 11 procs from probable OH's and 7 from probable MH's (pretty close to the ratio you'd expect from extra OH attacks given MH is 2.7 speed and OH 1.5 speed). These 18 procs off 178 attacks is very close to 10%.

For specials I saw 4 procs in 56 eligible attacks which is less than 10%, but close enough it still could likely be. Given that the proc rate was not higher (actually a bit lower), this also makes a % based proc more likely.

Granted, this is a very short combat log (only 230-ish attacks for 22 procs), but it's all I could find.

It still very well could be a PPM effect due to randomness and the small sample size, but the data suggests a small preference to a %-based effect.

I'm sorry I didn't knew that. But I'm keen on getting the MH now that I've gotten the OH on our last hyjal run. And I want to test the proc rate myself. Now I have been looking for an addon to register this, but I couldn't find one. Can someone point me in the direction of a working one with the latest patch?

Left · 04/08/08, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Radmsc

I'm sorry I didn't knew that. But I'm keen on getting the MH now that I've gotten the OH on our last hyjal run. And I want to test the proc rate myself. Now I have been looking for an addon to register this, but I couldn't find one. Can someone point me in the direction of a working one with the latest patch?

In the absence of an addon, the best thing to do is simply combat log a significantly long, boring fight. Candidates include the ogre spirits in Dire Maul or Servants of Razelikh in the Blasted Lands. Just log some different setups: autoattack only; autoattack with Sinister Strikes; full DPS cycles (including SnD). Then, post the log somewhere online and link it here. There are plenty of math-savvy people here who will (eventually) analyze it and pull out the appropriate info.

Morgan-McG · 04/08/08, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Dontmindme

The precision talent is adding ~79 hit rating to the displayed hit rating on the spreadsheet. My guess would be that your gear alone is only in the 280 range, hence the 5% miss rate.

OK, I see where it adds in the 79 hit rating from the talents, and it gives me a 362 unbuffed hit rating in cell H78.

I think I just realized where I went wrong ... my hit cap is 442 (or whatever it is), because it adds the 79 from the talents into the equation. I had in my head I needed 363 ...

Thanks!

Radmsc · 04/08/08, 12:32 PM

Ok, thnx for the advice.

Now after looking at the spreadsheet, I noticed a bug. The new ring from the sunwell isle "Angelista's revenge" doestn't show up in my upgrade list, while it definately is an upgrade for me (at least it says in the list of rings which is normally hidden). Any idea why?

Dontmindme · 04/08/08, 1:54 PM

Ok, about to post a corrected version shortly. Options importing from older sheet does not work correctly with this version. you can do it now, but need to load options from the Talents page after you are done. Loading is still a little funky, may have to load the other build to reload the default build.

2.4.0.7a
Changed
Fists of Fury proc now correctly applying resist mechanics
Options unchecked from importing as they no longer import correctly from prior versions.
Workaround is to save them as an Option set, import the options and load your option set from the pull down box on the Talent page.

Fixed
Shattered Sun Pendant of Might (Scryer) crit rating removed
Saved Options now pointing to correct cells
Expertise AEP now also considering Offhand
Ring Stats list now includes Angelista's Revenge

Dontmindme · 04/08/08, 2:55 PM

Here's an issue I'd like comment on...

Now that Epic Gems can (or will shortly) be available through Badges and the recipes available through Reputation with Shattered Sun (not to mention Mags), I'm trying to figure out how to attribute these gems for the pulldowns. I figure they will likely be all over the AH. So should they be marked BoE like typical Blues? Or does someone have a better suggestion?

Thx_138 · 04/08/08, 5:23 PM

I ran a search for this on the thread and couldn't find anything. When I replace all of my hit gems with AP it shows my dps goes up quite a bit as long as i maintain my meta bonus. I know this cant be right because my hit rating drops from the 320's to about 250. Is there a setting i am missing somewhere on the spread sheet? I would think that for raiding even gemming agility instead of hit would be better than AP.