Left

Buffed or unbuffed? If buffed, have you set buffs correctly? (My guess is that you are looking at the unbuffed box, and AP tends to be worth more unbuffed.)

 

Dontmindme

Are you looking at Unbuffed DPS? As one's stats go up, hit and agility gain a lot. When one is raid buffed it nearly doubles one's DPS output and increases the value of hit and agility. Importing your gear from the armory, AP gems are only showing an increase in the unbuffed DPS and are showing a decrease for your buffed DPS. Generally speaking, I don't worry about the unbuffed DPS at all. It's there mostly because some people use it as an approximate gauge of mob soloing or possibly PvP.

 

jweick

i seem to be having a problem with Epic gems (that now can be badge bought) showing up in my drop downs 10 +hit is one of them


after playing with it it seems that for the gems to show up you have to select MH/BT as an available instance. as now the gems can be badge purchased, can you please update accordingly

ty =)

 

Dontmindme

Actually, I went through and revamped that today in my working version as well as adding some missing Unique gems like Eye of the Sea (see post #824). They will probably be considered BoE (tentatively set that way for next version) although I'm toying with revamping gem categories altogether now that gems seem to drop in so many locations. I'll probably do something that makes more sense with the current state of gem distribution.

 

sp00n

I have a question regarding Ferocious Inspiration, how is it modeled in the sheet? What uptime is assumed, what imaginary hunter does it assume?

 

Schwarzwald

Hit isn't being properly calculated in the spreadsheets.

The Melee Hit cap seems to be off because the way the spreadsheet works with adding talents in improperly to the actual values.

For example, when I plugged in my current gear, I SHOULD have 277. But what the system does is it seems to be adding in the 5% from talents. So it will add 5x15.77 hit to my above total and then conclude that my hit is at 356. The problem comes in now.

The hit cap w/ 5/5 precision is 366, but the spreadsheet seems to be adding the total hit gained from 5% while ignoring the fact that this is altering the hit cap number.

I had noticed this when I was socketing my gear and that it was showing DPS decreases by socketing Hit as combat swords, but that shouldn't happen because I'm not hit capped yet. It was showing that AP gems were going to give the best dps, so I thought this was kinda funny.

 

drumbum

Actually the spreadsheet is handing hit rating just fine. If you are confused by seeing the extra "hit rating" from Precision added in, then just look at the Miss % chance box at the top of the Gear_Buffs sheet. Alternatively just keep in mind the hit cap is 442 without excluding the gain from Precision. (By the way, it's 363, not 366, with Precision.)

That said, AP really is better than hit rating under unbuffed situations. You probably are looking at your unbuffed DPS and not your buffed DPS.

 

drumbum

It appears to assume 100% uptime and simply incorporates it into the global damage modifier.

 

Radmsc

As most of the realms throught the world approach the end of building the anvil. An extra temporary weapon enchant becomes available soon. Are you planning to implement it into the sheet soon?

 

Schwarzwald

Alright I see it now. I was comparing a 20ap to an 8 hit. When i compared a 20ap to a 10 hit I saw an increase in buffed dps.

 

Dontmindme

I will probably implement it when I have some idea of its proc rate, whether it has a cooldown, whether it double procs with both hands like mongoose or is a single proc like Executioner. At the moment, I have too little information to include it.

Besides some anecdotal evidence that said it seemed to proc like Mongoose, but didn't double stack (so like Executioner), there is nothing else I could find. It would be nice to see at least a combat log with its use first.

 

StoicRoivaS

Forgive me if this has been answered countless times in the previous 30+ pages, but I'm a bit confused as to what row 75 is calculating. My current Armory page has 291 hit, and the spreadsheet is calculating 370. After a short inspection, I realized the row above has a "bonus" 79 hit (370-291) as well as some other stats. The row I'm looking at is not labeled, unlike the blood elf and socket bonus rows above it. I haven't been able to pinpoint the rest of the discrepancies but many of the other stats are off as well. Is there some simple option I'm missing or am I misinterpreting what I'm seeing? Thanks in advance for any help you can offer, and many thanks for the wonderful tool.

Edit: If it helps, my armory is here:
The World of Warcraft Armory

and my saved version of the spreadsheert (with direct from armory import) is here:
http://ilocker.bsu.edu/users/danolen...PS_2_4_0_6.xls

Thanks again.

 

Left

Countless times would be correct. In fact, this question has been answered twice in the last two pages.

And again...

The 79 is from the Precision, the talent.

Moral of the story: search before posting.

 

Dontmindme

Added to the FAQ:

Why does the spreadsheet say hit rating adds DPS when I'm already capped? My character sheet in game says my hit rating is X, but the spreadsheet says I have X + 79 hit rating?
The spreadsheet includes the talent Precision in the hit rating total adding 79 to the listed hit rating. Thus, hit rating caps at 442 without considering Precision. The best way to see if you are capped is to look at the Miss % at the top of the Gear _ Buffs sheet. If this says 0.0%, then you are truly at the hit cap.

 

Dontmindme

The next version of the spreadsheet will have that row labeled as "Talents". I'm not certain if it once did and it accidentally was blanked out in some past update or whether it has always been blank, but hopefully that will help resolve that confusion.

 

Dontmindme

Ok, I'm thinking about the future of the spreadsheet and how to make it more compact and easier to edit.

One thing that might help is if I remove "Unbuffed DPS" altogether and instead allow it as a switchable option.
This would accomplish a few things...
1) People will not get confused when they see attack power gems as DPS upgrades vs. equivalent hit gems.
2) It will save a lot of development time since I would only have to work on one set of cycle/dps sheets. Not to mention other places where formulas get doubled to try to accommodate both at one time.
3) More information could be displayed at the top of the page as there would be much more room. Things get kinda cluttered right now.
4) New features can be added much more easily. For example, in terms of proc rate optimization converting to stats, with both unbuffed and buffed modeled, the proc rates are actually going to be different for both. This causes problems with front loading stats (so the cycle sheets can be finely optimized) since, for example, unbuffed the average agility and haste from Mongoose will be much less than when buffed since the uptime would be higher. I would have to have some special option to choose which type of optimization occurs, which results in more work.

Since I feel this spreadsheet belongs to the community, I'd like to hear comments before I go ahead with such a major change. Especially if you feel both Unbuffed and Buffed DPS needs to stay side-by-side, I'd like to know your reasoning behind this and why it would not be as good as a "switch" that turns buffs off.

 

Dorvan

A toggle for buffed/unbuffed mode sounds good to me. Related to that, I'm thinking it's be nice to have two sets of buffs saved, so that players could make their own unbuffed, 10 man, and 25 man settings. It might be more complexity than is worth the trouble, but my rogue spend most of his time in Kara/ZA with a little Gruul/Mag thrown in, so being able to quickly switch back and forth between my average 10 and 25 man set ups would be a welcome addition.

 

todemax

I would like the unbuffed values to be removed completely, as it is really annoying having to make each change to the cycles sheets twice. In addition the ability to save buff settings should be enough, as long as unbuffed is added as a default saved setting.

 

Dontmindme

A lot of things become much easier to implement.

As to Buffs, you might have missed that Buff sets are also selectable and savable (like gear and talents and options). Look just above the top buffs (below the gear) and you have the same setup as the other options.

If you didn't miss that, yes some global toggles might be nice as well. I could see a one button change which would automatically load all 4 sets (saved gear set, talent set, option set and buff set) in one switch.

 

StoicRoivaS

Is there anything else that's calculated in this sort of backwards way? For instance the 94 extra agility or 94 extra AP that the sheet says I have compared to the armory? Thanks for the replies.

 

Left

I'm in total agreement with this one. As long as there is a way for the user to simply turn all buffs off, then there is always a way to analyze unbuffed DPS. And yeah, it would make everything MUCH easier to do, since you wouldn't have to duplicate work all the time.

 

Dontmindme

Actually there are a number of talents. In addition, some procs are modeled with their appropriate attribute contribution included in the stats. For example, Mongoose is listing Agility and Haste based on its expected uptime. Other procs will work this way as well. So, the AP or Agility reported is your average agility taking into account all buffs and all averages for proc uptimes. (Or at least will be when I complete the conversion for some procs).

 

Dorvan

Ah, I did miss that...because I simply ignore any buttons on the spreadsheets as they don't work with OO :P

 

StoicRoivaS

Good to know. Someone really should have just told me. I was completely mistaken when I took the "Unbuffed totals" row to mean my actual "unbuffed totals". Not to be picky because I'm sure people have put a lot of time into this, but if people new to the spreadsheet (i.e. me) are all going to have the exact same question about these sorts of things, hit rating and talent equivalencies, etc, why not put something into the info page? "Some items/telents/enchants/skills are modeled by indirect stat-equivalency methods" etc. I'm sure you all know this because you've been doing this for years since before beta and the conception of wow and you've already killed Sargeras, etc, but a little slack and explanation in what one would consider a reasonable place (the info tab) would be darned lovely. Thanks again and keep up the good work.

 

Garoly

Actually I think you could totally remove the unbuffed dps part and only rely on the buff builds. Doing so, we would just have to remove every buff and save that as "unbuffed" build to see our unbuffed dps (or better, this build is included by default). The upper part of the sheet would only reflect the wanted values and become clearer.

P.S : long time reader here, I'd like to thank everybody who's contributing to this spreadsheet, keep up the good work =)