Dontmindme

I completely understand. The Unbuffed totals are rather confusing, hence why I'm seriously consider dropping them altogether (well is an option that can be turned on anyway). The spreadsheet is in a bit of a state of transition. As you can probably see, it's rather extensive. The Info tab is a bit out-of-date.

I have considered figuring out a way to show the UI stats. Would be nice for comparative purposes to make sure one's gear is entered correctly, but that's on the further "to do" list.

-----------------------

In other news, it looks like the basic model for the new cycles is operational (for the 6 or so test cycles added). Still lots of work left in converting cycles (and adding more for Mutilate in the new modeling). Left has a very nice design for it and it seems to be working properly for at least the normal cycles.

You will see new cycle designations that will look something like: Cycle: 4s/5r Slack: 1.24 sec
Which means that, on average, you can maintain a 4s/5r cycle with a normal cut of 1.24 seconds. This information should be rather helpful in letting one know how tight one's cycle is. The other feature of the new design (with Mutilate using the same cycle models) is that it should be possible to allow one to "select" your own cycle from a pulldown.

I've also worked on the new style for proc modeling. Even better, I've added code to the AEP macro which will "auto-optimize" the procs for your gear selections. For Open Office users, the proc modeling is designed in a way where one could actually "hand-optimize" the procs through a cut and paste special (values) operation. When finished, this should bring the accuracy of items like DST, WSC, TT, etc to the level of the Gear spreadsheet (and maybe a tad bit beyond). This part should be done for the next update.

 

StoicRoivaS

For what it's worth, the idea is nice and I would consider it a helpful feature. Granted I haven't done much with spreadsheet besides simple sorting and formulas and that sort of thing, but it would seem to me you could simply add another row which is your true "unbuffed totals" row (which should match your UI stats) and then simply keep the existing row and calculations that are currently in the sheet and call them something more fitting, "pre-buffed totals", or something to that effect. Then a simple note in the info tab could explain the difference. To me both rows would be informational and helpful, but, again, just an opinion. Take care.

 

Zurgat

This sounds like a perfect solution to me.
You'd also have more room to display relevant stats in the buffed state. Such as expertise, target's dodge chance.
You have my vote. A checkbox to disable buffs into the calculation should be a big improvement.

-= Random Ravings - RSS Feed =- Rogue and Hunter stuff here. As well as guides to get you trough your spare time.

 

sp00n

As the others, I completely support the idea to remove the unbuffed section.
Honestly, I've never used it and I don't see a use for it besides testing your DPS solo.

The sheet's purpose isn't to measure your DPS when farming or in 5 mans (where you don't have 100% uptime on mobs anyways and the fights are so short) but to calculate your possible maximum DPS in raids.

And, as repeated several times, if you want to know your unbuffed DPS, just deselect every raid buff. Make a checkbox for deselecting everything, and you're good to go.

 

patcherke

Hi i want to say that you guys do a tremendous job on the spreadsheet. My respect for that.
I use it often to compare stats, and do tests.

however 1 slight note, and it concerns a typo in the Jewelcrafting department :

The gem that give 24 AP is called 'Crimson sun' and not 'Crismon Sun'.
doesn't affect the usability of the sheet though.

 

shandor

I think I found a minor error in the dropdown lists for ring slots when using OpenOffice 2.41 with spreadsheet version 2.4.0.7aOO.

When i load the spreadsheet and change a ring to another one, the ring which was set for the slot will simply vanish from the dropdown list, thus becoming unselectable.

I can only set the slot back to the original ring by closing and reloading the spreadsheet.

This happens for both ring slots, while other slots seem to be unaffected by this error.

 

Dontmindme

That's odd. I'm not seeing that issue with 2.3. I'm upgrading it now and seeing if I can reproduce it.

Edit: I upgraded to 2.4 and it's also doing this to me. The same code is used for trinkets but the trinkets seem to be working. Retyping the formula doesn't seem to help either. Nor does hitting Recalculate. Very strange issue that looks to be some bug with Open Office 2.4. Not really sure what I can do to solve this.

 

Scarlanah

I believe I found an error when calculating the DPS for Deathmantle Chestguard. When using the upgrade button it shows all the higher dps items for that slot, however when I place the Tunic of the dark hour which is supposed to be an increase, the overall dps drops when i replace it. I investigated this further by playing with gems on each item. i found out that when I complete the gems required for the bonus for the DeathMantle Chest piece, no matter what combo I use, it always gives me roughly a 30 dps increase. Even when I replace gems with stamina gems. I don't have any other deathmantle gear equipped, but it seems like it is acting like i do.
I hope this helps, I love the spreadsheet, and when i found this inconsistency, I thought to let you know.


Thanks,
Scarlanah

 

Left

Meta gem requirements?

 

Scarlanah

That was it. Thanks !! Can't believe I missed that.

 

Stax

I had a short Question and hope you can explain it to me, because i do not understand. The sheet tells me, improved poisons is doing more dmg than vile poisons, but everyone skills vile poisons. Could someone please explain this to me because i really would like to know the reason. And sorry for my english...its very bad

 

Wickedchild

I actually looked into this today on the sheet, and I believe it comes down to Winfury making your poisons proc more...
If its available, youre better off with Vile, but if not, Imp. might be the way to go.

 

Jakani

Windfury can't possibly make your poisons proc more, because the extra attacks are all MH attacks, and you certainly don't have poison and WF on your MH.

Are you using a slow offhand? If so, improved poisons helps keep your stack up and may provide more DPS that way than Vile.

 

Stax

I am Combat Sword skilled, with the Quickening Blade of the Prince (speed 1,5) in my off-hand. My buffed dps without WF is : 1264,53 (with 3 points in vile) and 1270,48 (with 3 points in improved).

With WF it is 1376,23 (with 3 points in vile) and 1377,24 (with 3 points in improved).

The Differenze isn´t too big, but it is higher with improved. And every Rogue i know is skilled in vile...so i skilled vile too, because i do not know if i do not see anything. (omg, really hope you can understand my english)

 

Wickedchild

well then i stand corrected i guess.
all i know is, using both the gear and the dps sheets, i saw that when using WF/DP i was better off with Vile.
but since i rarely get to raid with a shaman, im usually using DP/IP and with that, Imp. tends to come ahead by a small margin.
So i just assumed it would have something to do with it.

but if not, then what would be the difference?
is it merely down to IP procing more with Imp?
im an avid reader of the rogue threads here on EJ but im no theorycrafter sadly.
ill have a look at the sheets and see if i can find something to explain it nevertheless, just to ease my mind on the matter.

 

Dontmindme

I seem to recall that both talents were very close. I remember people even running simulators that often showed splitting between the two. The DPS difference is so small, I think it's hard to go wrong either way.

I think the real difference comes with hit rating and haste. The more hit and haste one has (more chances to apply), the better one's application rate (and the less chance or longer between poison drops), the better Vile Poisons becomes. Lower hit and haste and Imp. Poisons seems to help more by prolonging stack drop-offs.

 

Left

I agree with DMM. For end game rogues, Vile Poisons is (slightly) superior. However, there are several situations which can cause Improved Poisons to be superior:

1) You have a low amount of hit rating, in which case Imp. Poisons helps you keep up your DP stack
2) You are not using Windfury, in which case running IP mainhand/DP offhand causes Imp. Poisons to be better
3) Your offhand weapon speed is slow for some reason, in which case you should reevaluate your choice of offhand weapon (unless you play Mutilate)

Note that we have the spreadsheet precisely because it is hard to say for any specific person which is better, improved or vile, without careful analysis. I'd trust what the spreadsheet tells you for now, and then check it again when your gear or buff set changes. Personally, at my level of gearing I have found it better to split my talent points between the two of them, as that is what gives me the most DPS increase.

 

Stax

Thx for your answers. I think i will go to imp till i have more +hit (260 atm)then. I was afraid the speadshhet didn´t know that there can be only 5 DPs on the Mob or something. But if there is no problem like this, i will do what you said. Thx a lot for your help.

 

Dorvan

I ran into an interesting situation on the spreadsheet recently and I though I'd throw it out there to see if it's a peculiarity of Mutilate or a bug. I was playing around with trinkets and found that with my mix of T4-level and badge gear (with 2.4 daggers), the [Hourglass of the Unraveller] beat out the [Warp-Spring Coil] by about 1 dps buffed. Do you think this may be a combination of:

1) hit being worth relatively less for Mutilate than for combat builds
2) having no base armor pen on my gear
3) the hourglass having a slightly higher uptime with daggers than with other weapons

or is this some kind of error in the spreadsheet? Unfortunately I didn't think to change my talents to combat daggers and see how the trinkets compare with the same gear but different talents....I'll check that out later today when I have access to my spreadsheet.

for reference, here's my armory:

The World of Warcraft Armory

 

Tryss

One thing I have noticed is there is no option on the buffs page to receive the Inspiring Presence (+1% spell hit) aura - for poisons, I think - from Draenei Shaman and the Heroic Presence (+1% melee/ranged hit) aura from Draenei Hunters, Paladins, Warriors.

It would probably work like the Ferocious Inspiration, where you check off how many people in your party have the aura.

Although you may want someone to confirm that the auras stack. I can confirm Inspiring and Heroic Presence stack, but I am unsure if two or more Heroic Presences stack.

 

Dontmindme

Well, on the current in the works version, I'm greatly revising items with proc mechanics. It may get a better answer.

But that are a few things that might affect it:
1) Hourglass benefits from higher crit rates and Mutilate builds tend to have higher crit.
2) Armor Penetration benefits from other armor penetration. So if you do not use CoR and with higher boss armor, WSC fill be somewhat less useful.
3) At lower gear levels, attack power is higher valued than armor penetration. Armor Penetration scales with one's overall damage, or in essence, if you can do 2000 DPS, you get twice the benefit from armor penetration than if you do 1000 DPS. Conversely, when your attack power is lower, 300 attack power is a nice percent boost when you aren't as geared, but at top gear levels, 300 attack power is almost a drop in the bucket.

I suspect its possible that at that gear level, that might be true. That said, as that toon gets geared up, the value of WSC will rise and Hourglass will certainly fall in comparison.

 

Dorvan

I'm fairly certain that multiples of the same Draenei aura do not stack.

 

Dontmindme

It does bring up an interesting question. The way Mutilate shows 2 seperate damages, makes me wonder if Mutilate doubles the proc rate as a result. Or in other words, are there two chances to proc from a Mutilate or just one?

 

Dorvan

Interesting question...I don't actually have a [Warp-Spring Coil] myself to test unfortunately....but first of all, does anyone have any good ideas for where to go about testing this? I'm not aware of any invincible mobs that are content to keep their backs to you.

 

Vodrin

As anecdotal evidence I'm sure I've seen both hands proc mongoose of one mutilate many times. Also both poisons can both land of one mutilate. Pretty sure it does count as separate hits for proc chances.