Kanfastblade

Hi all,

As this is my first post here let me start be thanking the spreadsheet mantainer and all its previos authors for the effort put into helping us all better understand WTF we are doing. Personally I have used this spreadsheet for a long time as do many good rogues that I know.
I have a small suggestion: How about adding improved EA as a posible raid buff. My guild is considering using it (maybe a muti rogue to keep it up) after all it is better then a 5-sunder and Brutallus will need all the DPS buffs we can get. It would be nice if it can be set as option though we can allways change the -armor of 5sunder to 3075.

 

Dontmindme

Going backwards...

Kanfastblade---
I knew I forgot something I was going to do. I meant to add that as a debuff this time around.

Left---
Yeah, I guess that hit % is very confusing, I copied that from the chart (it's currently reading your chance to get a "hit" vs. a "crit" "glancing", etc), but that's not really all that useful without the rest of it.
Change that cell to ='Buffed DPS'!Q2-Talents!F4, and it will make more sense.
Yeah, moving the saved DPS up and making the lower part difference should work.

Sp00n---
"Used" is the value the spreadsheet is currently using for uptime. To avoid a circular reference, this is just a static number. If you hit the AEP Macro, it copies (10 times), the values from the calculations into the "Used" cells. I do this 10 times since the calculation might change a bit as the uptimes change (it is a circular reference). So, it optimizes on the perfect uptime based on the equipment/talents/gear etc
So, yes, for Excel, you do not need "Paste Special" or apparently "Paste Contents" in the German version. Since the Open Office version doesn't have working Macros, I put an explanation on the page so that Open Office users could do this by hand and achieve the same statistical accuracy of Excel users.

Ratak---
Good catch, change things move things around, looks like I cut and paste and missed changing that.

Zurgat---
Okay, Verdana is going away.
I'm not convinced on some of those buffs. Kinda hard to believe for the 1 minutes, that any guild could attack mobs to get the buff, coordinate summons and start the fight in time for that. Even the 5 minute buff seems pretty sketchy. The others make sense. Buffs need a serious revision anyway. In terms of some of that space, I've got some ideas for utilizing some of it including moving the MH/OH weapon type selections up there in easy sight so we aren't continually asked how to select fists. We'll see how it looks when I add that to that page, not sure how much space I will really have left as I have another Macro button to add (to resolve the annoying situation where you have changed something and want to go back to your saved gear set). The "Reload" button (as seen in this version on the talent sheet), avoids the hassle of switching and switching back.

I still think the Item Compare sheet is the better place for more advanced information. Offhand info might be nice but it does take up a bit of space, then if one considers offhand instants like Shiv...
For the normal user, I think it's more than needed, but I do understand the theorycrafting angle and would like to see a more advanced sheet (like a converted Item Compare). Besides, I'm actually trying to reduce the info on the Gear sheet, so people don't have to scroll around so much.

While we are at it. if any of the theorycrafters want to look over the proc modeling (check for typos etc), the modules are located on the Buffed DPS sheet toward the bottom. Just to make sure I didn't screw something up there.

 

patcherke

It seems that something has gone wrong again with the calculation of the T4 set bonus.
For example, I have 3 pieces of T4 together with the chest guard of the conniver.
If I replace the chestguard by the netherblade chestpiece (and hence getting my 4 piece T4 set bonus), I have a loss of 3.2 DPS.
I cannot believe this, as the netherblade chestpiece is better, even without the set bonus.
To prove this point I have disabled the 4 piece set bonus, and the result was an increase of 2 DPS instead of the 3.2 loss I had before. (This means a difference of over 5 DPS, by disabling the set bonus)

Can you explain how my DPS can increase if I disable a set bonus?

Another example: about the same situation (3 pieces T4), but now the shoulders are changed. The sun gilded shoulder caps come out higher than the netherblade shoulder pads, what seems as odd as the previous example.
The same story can be told about the handgrips: the handgrips of assassination (the D3 set, which is supposed to be of lesser value than the T4 set) comes out higher if I don’t disable the set bonus.

A second thing I would like to point at is the trinkets.
The dragon spine trophy, which is believed to be the best trinket in game, is now suddenly worse then the hourglass of the unraveller.
If I again disable the T4 set bonus, it is the opposite (the dragon spine trophy becomes better than the hourglass)
I had expected from the dragon spine trophy to be a lot better in that case, but the difference (if the T4 set bonus is disabled) is a meager 4.4 DPS.
That doesn’t seem correct either in my opinion.

It seems like the 4 piece T4 set bonus does not do any good to the outcome of DPS, and the choice of trinkets.
Can this be looked at? It was wrong in 2.4.0.6, but seemed to have been fixed in 2.4.0.7 (where the set bonus was applied correctly, or at least it seemed so)

And a last point I want to point at, is the fact that the combopoint cycle is suddenly changed. I have a dagger spec, and was expecting something like 3s4s5r for the cycle, but I get 5s4r. (I can assure you that this 5s4r is very hard to maintain, but that aside.) But I do not get why the cycle is changing this sudden.

 

Artalyx

I think you have broken the [Romulo's Poison Vial] proc calculation on the "buffed dps" sheet (in cell Q34).

It multiplies by cell Q57 as part of the calculation, this cell seems to empty and so it always coems out with 0 damage. On unbuffed dps and previous sheets 0.025 was used where the Q57 is now.

I'm assuming the change of the 0.025 to a cell reference was for the new modelling system for procs and you have just refenced the wrong cell? Also it doesn't seem to be on the "optimize" sheet, but then I'm not sure if it is supposed to be.

I'll stop speculating now, as I think I think I made my point "OMG vial is broke... fix now!".

 

Dontmindme

First off, the T4 set bonus issue with some specs will hopefully be fixed with the new cycle models. Nothing has been done yet to resolve this issue where sometimes one hits certain tweener states which causes this phenomenon. In the new cycle sheet, all cycles will "adjust" to the optimum energy cut for a given cycle, so excess cycle time should become a 0 dps gain, again hopefully.

Next, the bug with Hourglass has been reported above, it's currently has double the uptime it should have. Change the 20 to a 10 in column D on the Optimize page.

I'll look into the 4-pc bonus and see if something broke.

A lot changed (especially with proc modeling), so some bugs were expected to slip past. I was mostly monitoring the default gear set to make sure there was no weirdness. Given the nearly limitless possibilities, one cannot go through every possibility, hence my warning about bugs in this update.

As to Romulo's, yeah, I probably deleted a reference it needed. I had a more primitive (quick and dirty) proc modeling scheme in place before I implemented the more statistically accurate one. It's probably trying to reference that. Change Q57 to M55 and it should work.

The 4-pc Netherblade bonus seems to be working. I see a DPS change if I force it enabled. It's certainly not a big DPS change though.

 

Erock

The sheet says i lose a substantial amount of DPS from [Hourglass of the Unraveller] to [Romulo's Poison Vial], is it true or is the calculation on the procs just a little off?

 

sp00n

Oh boy.
*Two* postings above yours!

 

Dontmindme

And not just a little off, big typo, Hourglass is being valued double what it's supposed to be. Not to mention Romulo's Poison Vial is getting nothing for the proc. I'll try to get a bug fix version out tonight, but definitely keep the bugs coming so we can find the majority of them.

 

Dontmindme

Going up shortly...
Tossed a few missed features in among the bug fixes so went with a new version number

2.4.0.9 dmm
Added
Expose Armor

Changed
Stat block font changed to Arial (Verdana unsupported on Macs)
Conditional coloring of DPS changes
Default gear sets
Syphon of the Nathrezim using proc mechanics (1 PPM)
Rod of the Sun King using proc mechanics (1 PPM)
Hit % in stat box fixed

Fixed
Optimization formulas for procs with cooldowns.
Crimson Sun with it's in-game effect (32 attack power instead of the tooltip's 24)
Hourglass of the Unraveller proc duration fixed to 10 secs and spelled correctly on the Optimize sheet
Romulo's Poison Vial proc (referred to a deleted cell)

 

Left

I've been thinking, might it not be better to move to a "beta" system for releases like Aldriana uses? That way, we could catch more of these bugs and whatnot prior to releasing an "official" version. Thus, instead of having to release 2.4.0.9 right after 2.4.0.8 to fix bugs, we could release 2.4.0.8_beta1, 2.4.0.8_beta2, etc, and finally 2.4.0.8 (itself)?

Might be a little cleaner in versioning as well as making it more obvious that the "latest" is a beta version and may have bugs.

 

Dontmindme

It's a tough call since any previous version could be considered somewhat buggy as it lacks features or mismodeled something or is lacking something. It's not like Omen with what seems like multiple updates a day is warning of bugs. I know some addons use a beta system and some keep incrementing the number.

As an aside, the import from another sheet should work from 2.4.0.8 for talents and options but not from previous versions. You are better off reloading them through the Combo boxes.

 

patcherke

.No, it isn't. I have a combat dagger spec, and have 4 pieces of Netherblade (everything except the leggings).
I loaded my armory profile, and I did save it at that point, after running the AEP determination.

If I just put the 4 piece set bonus requirements to, let's say, 6 pieces (changing cell X29,hence disabling it),I get an increase of 9.22 DPS.
(running this on the 2.4.0.9 version)

I think this might work however on a combat sword spec, but not on a combat dagger one.

[edit] just checked it out on a combat sword, and there it is indeed a DPS increase (changed to swords for the good understanding)

The trinkets seem to be working again, nice done. I already thought the hourglass was a bit off.
But I don't get the 32 AP of the Crimson sun. the tooltip clearly states 24. Where comes that aditional 8 AP from?
I read the previous page, stating this 'hidden' 8AP, but I never saw it, will check that out. (But I doubt it to be honest, maybe the other guy had a socket bonus)

 

Dontmindme

I found at least 2 separate posts doing a global internet search where people can't figure out why their item with a Crimson Sun isn't adding up correctly with the character sheet, both times exactly 8 AP off. Combine that with what the 24 to AP text is linking to on Wowhead (which automatically pulls down code links) and it is clear to me that at least recently, it's working as 32 AP and has been for quite awhile. I suspect it will be changed sometime, but there are many other things I thought would be changed that never were so that change is in until I hear of Blizzard fixing the issue.

In terms of cycles, there is no difference in cycle selection for combat daggers vs. combat swords. There are issues with the cycle models for certain cycles that fall in-between and great progress has been made on the entirely revamped cycle modeling. Left has done a lot of work with a fair bit of input from Todemax and there will probably be a "beta" version of the new cycle sheet within a couple weeks. The current cycle model (going back long before I started working on this sheet) has always shown some issues with that particular bonus.

 

Aaberg

Whenever I save a new set of gear, it overwrites whatever set I had previously loaded.
I loaded the "Misc" set, Imported my character from Armory, hit "Save gear". The box popped with the name "Misc" in it, I renamed to my character name, and saved.
Now I have 2 sets named Svipper, the old Misc, and a new set.
The Misc set haven't had its items changed, just the name.

 

Seleli

I've found a bug in the 2_4_0_9 Spreadsheet. You added Expose Armor, but the formula isn't correct, so it doesn't actually calculate any armor pen, even when Sunder is off. The following should fix it.

Current Formula:
Proposed change:

 

Varlaam

Good day,

I am having this consistent problem with the spreadsheet, which I have tried on multiple computers with the same result. Whether I try to select any item in the gear sheet and "copy" it, Excel gives me this error:

Run-time error '13'
Type mismatch detected

Debug highlights this line
dps1 = Sheets("Gear _ Buffs").Range("c6").Value - Sheets("Gear _ Buffs").Range("c7").Value

Can anyone tell me what's the problem about, since with this bug I cannot set my gear, neither import it from Armory.
Macros are enabled.

Thank you.

 

Zurgat

I wouldn't bother with the 1 minute buffs, as you'll spend 5 seconds to finish off the mob, 10 seconds to accept the summon and load, and another 5-10 waiting for the tank to get aggro or the fight to start. By that time you'll have about 30 seconds left of 10% extra agility. It's probably not worth bothering for most except the absolute hardcore.
The 5 minute buff is very feasible though, it's a hassle sure enough but there are guilds that will use it.
I remember having half the raid run trough Dire maul or UBRS to get buffs for Molten Core. If you're pushing for your raid's limits every bit helps.

The top font looks ok now on the first sheet, though i must request that the DPS stats on the talent page are shown with decimals rather than just integers. When you are looking at one point more or less in poison talents the decimals will represent a more accurate value. I don't see any valid reason to hide decimals in a theorycrafting spreadsheet. Deadly poison uptime, or expose weakness / expose armor uptime (depending on selection) could also be nice to add to the misc block.

Also, perhaps the "import from other sheet" could be moved to the talents page, under the options. There's a nice white space there that perfectly suits the import block. It'll also be easier to find here and will allow you to create more space in the gear_buffs sheet. This extra space could then be used for displaying more buffs as requested earlier, and/or moving the option to limit weapon choices to a more visible area at the top of the sheet to reduce common questions from new users.



Could the font size of the boss armor block be increased from 8 to 9 pixels? This way it'll match the options block to the left of it. Currently it's being compressed rather weird.


Another point to make, as we can use all kinds of finishers and instant. Obviously you need the sheet to make a lot of assumptions on which skills a user would prefer. These however make it very rigid in terms of skill usage and clutter the options above that. Perhaps it could be useful to pick up those skills and move them to a separate block where you can select which ones to use for calculating the optimal dps cycle. It should make the cycle easier to calculate and make the sheet more dynamic in it's use.

Here's an example. You can see some of the options that already existed could be moved into the new block.
I also added an option to disable debuffs. Obviously if this new block for skills were to be used, the "import options" would have to move to the right side of this new block. It will take some construction time, but on overall I feel that it would greatly improve the sheet's functionality.
I've set back the font size of the armor block in this example to 8, so you can compare it to the image above this one where it's set to 9.

Edit: I just noticed I forgot Slice&Dice in the image...

-= Random Ravings - RSS Feed =- Rogue and Hunter stuff here. As well as guides to get you trough your spare time.

 

Wickedchild

I should have noted this before, but I kept putting it off...
Everytime I import from the armory, everything comes in smooth except the gem in my [Master Assassin Wristwraps] which is a rigid dawnstone, but it keeps coming in as a glinting noble topaz.

 

Garoly

Same here, I have always noticed a glinting noble topaz in the wrist socket after importing from the armory.

I have a question regarding the warglaives, currently I'm wearing the main hand. Using the dps spreadsheet I should expect a ~150dps increase by getting the off hand, using the gear spreadsheet (same gear, buffs & debuffs) it should be more around ~75dps.
Which one should I trust more in this case ?

 

Milano

There seems to be a bug with armory import that puts Glinting noble topaz in ranged weapon and bracer sockets regardless of what gems you actually are using. Might be more, but those are the ones I've noticed with my gear in the couple last versions of the spreadsheet.

 

hannigaholic

Some great new changes, but I have noticed a couple of small problems.

In OpenOffice, in both versions 2408 and 2409, I'm getting a #DIV/0! error for all of the percentage values (except for the 100% value) in the DPS Details section at the top of the Talents sheet. I even tried just changing the formulae to, for exampe "=O2/O6" but the same error is present. I did have a quick check back and couldn't find any other mention the problem so I apologise if I just missed it.

Also the SnD Uptime and Rupture Uptime show no values at all. The cells simply have no formulae or references in them at all. I'm guessing this is just pending future implementation but in case it has just been accidentally missed out I figured I've give you a heads up.

This is probably because the DPS spreadsheet is setup to be fighting Demons, whereas the Gear spreadsheet isn't. Change it to Undead and the dps benefit falls to ~90 in the DPS spreadsheet

 

Garoly

That's it, thanks for your reply.

 

Dontmindme

Going backwards...
Hannigaholic---
1) Open Office #DIV/0! - Open Office apparently didn't want to calculate from cells formated the way I did that. If you change the O2 through O6 to the basic formulas from those cells it will work correctly (remember parentheses for the additions). Change implemented on my beta copy.
2) Rupture and SnD Uptime - yes, this is a future feature. The current cycle format isn't designed in a very friendly way to report those numbers. It can be done but would involve a formula filled with conditionals. With the revamped cycle format on the horizon, those numbers will be easy to report.

Milano/Garoly/Wickedchild---
Armory import and gems - I've identified the issue. It's a legacy from the change that sped up the import macros. What was actually happening is that because calculations weren't updating (for speed), it was deciding whether a cell was empty (and adding a Glinting Noble Topaz) based on the item that was there previous to the import. In short, if an item didn't have sockets and the import replaced it with an item that did, it put Glintings in there. I've recoded that and it appears to work on my beta copy.

Garoly---
Warglaive bonus - (I'll look at that, I'll edit it in here if I figure it out.)

Zurgat---
1) 1 and 5 minute buffs mob "buffs" - Given the nature of the spreadsheet (a sustained fight of infinite duration) and that I still see coordination issues with trying to summon multiple people at once who need to be gaining this buff simultaneously. Not to mention that without fight duration, a DPS estimate cannot be assessed, I can't see including those at this time.
2) Decimals - I'm agreeing with sp00n that it looks cleaner without the decimals. That said, just look off to the right, the same information (with decimals) is listed under "DPS Details".
3) Import buttons - Yes, I expect them to move at some point. I haven't gotten to remodeling the Gear sheet yet. Whether they move to an "Import" sheet, the "Talent" sheet or somewhere else, hasn't been determined yet.
4) Fonts - I can change that back to 9 pt.
5) Instants and Finishers - I've considered some changes there but until the new unified cycle format goes into place, its not going to happen. I'm actually hoping to go one step further. Besides allowing one to select their instant, I'm hoping to allow one to also select and override their cycle from a pulldown. Granted, the first step is the new cycles, but at some point it would be nice to allow this long-requested feature. Currently, with Mutilate and regular cycles being two different "animals", those changes aren't very feasible.

Varlaam---
Runtime error - I suspect it's one of the following...
1) You do not have MSXML6 installed so that the Macros are not compiling correctly due to a missing library. You can find a copy of this library where you downloaded the spreadsheet. Barring that, you can try the NA version (designed for Excel for Macs for which this library has never been created by Microsoft). The only feature that is missing is Import from Armory.
2) You are using Excel for Mac and not using the "NA" version.
3) It's possible your Macro permissions are not allowing it to run.
If this doesn't help, I need to know which version of Excel you are using and whether you are using a Mac or a PC.

Seleli---
Expose Armor - Correction noted and implemented in my beta version. Also, it appears Sunder Armor cell Q80 needs to be changed as well.
IF(Talents!O29="No",IF((B93*410*(1+25%*C93))>B80*520,0,B80*520),0)
Needed to be coded as such so that only the highest active debuff is applied and not both.

Aaberg---
Saved Builds - I've identified the issue and it's fixed in my beta.

 

Radmsc

With the latest version of the spreadsheet, I noticed something odd.

Currently I'm wearing the Shoulderpads of the Silvermoon Retainer and when running the Upgrade-macro, it didn't show the Slayer's Shoulderpads and the Demontooth Shoulderpads as an upgrade. When I manually selected them in the file, they were shown with no gems in it, so I putted them in as well and then they seemed to be an upgrade (namely 12.58 DPS increase for the Slayer's Shoulderpads and 10,77 DPS increase for the Demontooth Shoulderpads).

I personally think this is a problem with the gems in the file. I believe they normally need to compare other pieces of armor with the Glinting Noble Topaz equipped in them. But in these shoulders it doesn't.

I hope I've given enough information to fix this "bug".

 

iuron

The problem radmsc addresses is a global one. It's the same with hands, chest... As far as I understand the spreadsheet, the updates are calculated per row while the other rows are considered to remain the same as they are when the update is run. The easiest workaroud is to manually equip some sample gems (4agi/4hit) even if the slot is not enabled. Even if you can't see the slot you can equip a hidden gem there which is not used to calculate your dps.