DPS Spreadsheet - Page 47

Kaiser Sosze · 05/23/08, 4:40 PM

hello,
Is their anyway someone can post specific instructions on installing and setting up the spreadsheet for WindowsXP? Like what location to DL the two files. I work construction and mess around modding cars, and computers are not on top of the list of things I'm good at.
I know enough that any questions I have can be answered with this thing and asking in Rogue101 with only be answered with ridicule. I've DL'd the files ,and i seem to be having problems running it.I get popups when clicking many tabs etc. I'm pretty sure I have something wrong.

KS

saedo · 05/23/08, 5:18 PM

Originally Posted by Kaiser Sosze

hello,
Is their anyway someone can post specific instructions on installing and setting up the spreadsheet for WindowsXP? Like what location to DL the two files. I work construction and mess around modding cars, and computers are not on top of the list of things I'm good at.
I know enough that any questions I have can be answered with this thing and asking in Rogue101 with only be answered with ridicule. I've DL'd the files ,and i seem to be having problems running it.I get popups when clicking many tabs etc. I'm pretty sure I have something wrong.

Did you install the MSXML? http://rogue.raidcal.com/msxml6.msi

What are you using to load the spreadsheet? Excel? Open Office? Those are the only 2 I think btw, stuff like ExcelViewer won't work.

Cragzop · 05/23/08, 6:48 PM

What does the option to "force ghostly strike if Hemo" do?

I recall a post from the late April timeframe where DMM stated that ghostly strike was implemented yet. Is that still true?

I ask because I toggled that check box and saw a 70DPS change. I can't conceive how using ghostly strike would increase my DPS, let alone by that much. Can someone help me out please?

Left · 05/23/08, 7:53 PM

It shouldn't do anything at all at the moment, unless DMM has now implemented it. If it is showing a DPS change, we (and by we I mean not me cause I'm busy) should check into it.

Kaiser Sosze · 05/23/08, 8:27 PM

Originally Posted by saedo

Did you install the MSXML? http://rogue.raidcal.com/msxml6.msi

What are you using to load the spreadsheet? Excel? Open Office? Those are the only 2 I think btw, stuff like ExcelViewer won't work.

I am using Microsoft office excel 2003. Well, turns out my wife knows something about spreadsheet from work, never bothered to ask her , and she just showed me how to work a few things. I keep getting a "cannot find Library or project" message from few "Buttons" I will call them, but I do see a change in dps from changing gear and stuff from what i just played with.

Now I did DL the MSXML, but Is their a specif folder I must DL it to for it to work for whatever it does? I saved the spreadsheet to (my documents) folder, or at least their is a "copy of spreadsheet " there.

saedo · 05/23/08, 8:33 PM

Originally Posted by Kaiser Sosze

Now I did DL the MSXML, but Is their a specif folder I must DL it to for it to work for whatever it does? I saved the spreadsheet to (my documents) folder, or at least their is a "copy of spreadsheet " there.

This is the problem now. Double click that MSXML to install it.

Kaiser Sosze · 05/23/08, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by saedo

This is the problem now. Double click that MSXML to install it.

Doh!, kk got it, I guess it seems to be working, I'm going to play with it a bit and learn how to use it, Thanks for your help

Professor Hurt · 05/24/08, 12:47 PM

Hey DMM, I posted some mutilate dps numbers over in the mutilate thread based on your spreadsheet and someone mentioned not seeing the Proc DPS column being adjusted when equipping the Shard of Azzinoth. I also see it staying at zero. Is this weapon's proc currently not modeled, or perhaps just modeled in a different way? If not, would anyone with this weapon be willing to post some WWS since the most recent update (I believe it changed) so we could analyze the proc rate?

Dontmindme · 05/25/08, 12:58 AM

I was looking at that the other day, was about to add an estimated DPS when stories of the cooldown going away came to light. It used to proc about once a minute for roughly 3k damage or about 5 DPS. More information on the current state of the proc would be helpful.

Professor Hurt · 05/25/08, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Dontmindme

I was looking at that the other day, was about to add an estimated DPS when stories of the cooldown going away came to light. It used to proc about once a minute for roughly 3k damage or about 5 DPS. More information on the current state of the proc would be helpful.

Karmon posted a reply to my question in the Mutilate thread with a WWS and some rough DPS numbers for his Brut kill. Here's the post: http://elitistjerks.com/757419-post1075.html

Imala · 05/25/08, 3:45 PM

Hello everyone,

I'm using the current version (2.4.2.1), with a Mut spec (41/20/0). When looking for gear upgrade for my Off hand, the sheet suggests that the Gladiator Shiver (1.4 speed) will give me 3 more DPS than the Shanker (1.8 speed). Given the fact they have the same stats, wouldn't it be better to get the 1.8 speed one for bigger mutilates?

I can't imagine any scenarios where it would be better to get a faster off hand over the slowest one for same stats and DPS. Is my logic flawed or there is something wrong by the spreadsheet?

Professor Hurt · 05/25/08, 4:59 PM

Originally Posted by Imala

Hello everyone,

I'm using the current version (2.4.2.1), with a Mut spec (41/20/0). When looking for gear upgrade for my Off hand, the sheet suggests that the Gladiator Shiver (1.4 speed) will give me 3 more DPS than the Shanker (1.8 speed). Given the fact they have the same stats, wouldn't it be better to get the 1.8 speed one for bigger mutilates?

I can't imagine any scenarios where it would be better to get a faster off hand over the slowest one for same stats and DPS. Is my logic flawed or there is something wrong by the spreadsheet?

The reason you're seeing this is due to the additional projected uptime of your Deadly Poison stack. The faster the OH weapon, the more chances it has to apply DP to the mob and the less chance it has of falling off and having to start the entire stack over again.

On a side note, I've recently noticed that weapon speed and even weapon DPS to some extent really has little to do with the estimated spreadsheet DPS of the mutilate rogue, much less so than Combat or Hemo builds. That's likely also a factor in these surprising and subtle DPS shifts. That's not to say there couldn't be a bug in, say, the way slow and fast OH weapons calculate something related to DP dmg and Mutilate dmg itself, but my limited poking around hasn't uncovered anything. Maybe DMM or Left could give it a once over in the future just to make sure things are working as intended?

KasumiRevy · 05/26/08, 5:42 PM

For the first time using this spreadsheet (latest version) it's telling me WSC is a dps upgrade over DST for me. (41/20/0)

Finding this a hard pill to swallow, my concern is, as I understand it, the spreadsheet is giving it a static 400 arp, which isn't actually accurate since it's bursting for 1k arp. I did some checking and it appears that the general logic is WSC is better, but the dps is maybe 1-3 difference, and I am hesitant on the real world dps.

Feedback?

Professor Hurt · 05/26/08, 6:28 PM

Originally Posted by KasumiRevy

For the first time using this spreadsheet (latest version) it's telling me WSC is a dps upgrade over DST for me. (41/20/0)

Finding this a hard pill to swallow, my concern is, as I understand it, the spreadsheet is giving it a static 400 arp, which isn't actually accurate since it's bursting for 1k arp. I did some checking and it appears that the general logic is WSC is better, but the dps is maybe 1-3 difference, and I am hesitant on the real world dps.

Feedback?

I see the same thing, and in fact my two best trinkets for mutilate are AToL and Shard of Contempt. For reference, my trinket inventory ranks as follows (for Mutilate!): ATOL is tops, Shard second, WSC third, and DST fourth. It may be surprising at first, especially if you're coming from years of x/4x/x experience, but it's not all that hard to believe when you analyze the numbers.

A couple thoughts as to why this occurs (I'm no expert, but have some knowledge why this is happening): first off, haste isn't quite as valuable for Mutilate due to less talent-based on-hit bonuses in the Assassination tree. It's still good, but not quite as valuable as if you were another spec. Second, ArP is slightly favored in a Mutilate build (see the EP weight tables in Rogue: PvE DPS). The EP value of ArP is the same across builds, but other EP values are lower under Mutilate, making it slighty more valuable in relation. And third, Mutilate tends to chew through more CPs than other specs, which would give a bonus to trinkets based on CP usage (AToL, etc).

Also, in case you meant the trinket order changed for you from previous versions of the spreadsheet, there was a recent overhaul of the mutilate cycle logic (done by Left and DMM I believe). It's believed to be much more accurate than the previous implementation.

Furtim · 05/27/08, 2:26 AM

I noticed that when you have Metagem Gemrequire enabled and click the Gems upgrade button, it still disables the metagem requirement for it's searches.

This defeats the purpose of having it enabled so that it only lists gems that keep your Meta Gem activated.

The way I fixed it was the following:

In Modul4 I added this at the very beginning

Global GemUpdate As Boolean

Also in Modul4, in the GemUpgrades section, I added the following underlined code

Sub GemUpgrades()
Dim GRange As Range
GemUpdate = True
    Call UpgradeCheck(28)
    For Each GRange In [C10:C71]
            If GRange.Value = True Then
                Call UpgradeCheck(GRange.row)
            End If
        Next
GemUpdate = False
End Sub

Then, in Modul3, I added the following underlined code as well

'**********************************************
' Initalize Variables
Metarequire = Excel.ActiveSheet.Range("Y41").Value
If GemUpdate = False Then Excel.ActiveSheet.Range("Y41").Value = False
Set ItemCell = Excel.ActiveSheet.Cells(TargetRow, 2)

The button now acts as you would expect it to.

tetracycloide · 05/27/08, 11:50 AM

Searching for gems that keep your meta active is not useful. We know what keeps the meta active because it's written on the meta.

Any set of gear can be made to activate the meta which is why the meta activate check box goes out during gear upgrades. This is a feature, not a bug, because searching this way finds the best upgrades, not the upgrades that are inferior that happen to keep the meta active. The search posts results in DPS numbers and it's impossible to get an objective comparison between the DPS numbers of two different options if one includes the DPS gain from the meta.

Furtim · 05/27/08, 8:56 PM

This way it only shows gems that are upgrades while still maintaining the meta, no more having it suggest rigid lionseye over your shifting shadowsong that's keeping your meta working.

Mikhael · 05/27/08, 10:28 PM

FWIW, I like Furtim's way better...I'd suggest it as a checkbox or something.

tetracycloide · 05/28/08, 12:05 AM

Let's assume it stays the way it is, under the ideal set up you get a massive list of comments on 2 gems in your gear, the shifting night's eyes. That's it.

Now let's assume it searches for gems based on activating the meta requirement. If you run a gem upgrade search it is going to suggest purple and blue gems by massive margins any time you need one to activate your meta generating useless comments on every single one of your gem selections. If you run a gear upgrade search it might even generate a list of possible gear upgrades that include the meta bonus just because they are socketed with blue or purple gems. Options that could actually be massive downgrades.

I'd rather deal with 2 useless sets of comments on the two gems I'm certain it's going to show up on than a half dozen or more useless sets of comments on all the other gem selections and possibility even two or three flat out wrong gear slot selections incorrectly showing up with their own DPS plus the DPS from activating the meta.

Dontmindme · 05/28/08, 12:30 AM

The gem search used to work as it will after the fix. It "broke" when the Upgrade search was changed so that the thread wouldn't get spammed every 3 posts with "Why does it say XXX junk item is better than YYY which everyone knows is better?" Formerly, the same issue occurred with set items, confusing a fair number of people.

Granted we occasionally get those posts anyway, but now they have to change items manually in order to ask that. The proposed fix is exactly what I wanted to get done eventually. Of course, it was a fairly low priority given that it's not that hard to figure out which gems are upgrades (switch one to hit, then to agility, presto, you know which are your upgrades). Expect those changes to be implemented in the next Beta.

Looking back through the thread...
I'll figure out something for the Shard proc now that it is a significant effect.

I'm not too surprised to see WSC right up there for Mutilate builds. I still need to find time to code the more accurate armor pen modeling, but assuming that the extra armor penetration from the WSC proc doesn't get wasted (from excess armor penetration which is possible in some extreme circumstances), if anything, WSC will be slightly undervalued by the spreadsheet as it currently stands.

Yes, force ghostly strike is adding DPS when it shouldn't as Ghostly Strike has not been remodeled with the new cycle system. I'll have that fixed with the confusing Eviscerate issue in next beta.

I'll try to get a new beta up tomorrow with most of these changes.

THEFREAKISH · 05/28/08, 6:49 AM

Is there another way to extract the equivalance points used in the sheet than calculating them myself? I haven't found such a function yet, but I'd like to use those values in a gear-compare-addon in the game, to have a vague suggestion which item would be an upgrade.

Dontmindme · 05/28/08, 10:37 AM

If you are using Excel, these appear toward the bottom of the Talent sheet.

They are currently expressed 3 ways:
1) As Agility equivalence where Agility is forced to 1. All other stats are weighed proportionally.
2) As Attack Power equivalence where Attack Power is forced to 1.
3) As DPS, where one can see the projected DPS contribution of one stat point.

THEFREAKISH · 05/28/08, 7:18 PM

Thank you very much. But I have to admit that im posting this question in the wrond thread, I was talking about the other guys' spreadsheet, where these values aren't found that easy. But I'll just use this one and be happy.

Jakani · 05/28/08, 8:40 PM

On the Gear sheet, they're on the DamageCalcs sheet, row 11. I made a reference table for myself that I added to the Talent/Buff sheet so I could see it more easily. It only takes a couple minutes.

It lays out like this:

Agility =DamageCalcs.D11
Strength =DamageCalcs.C11

and so forth.

Furtim · 05/28/08, 11:26 PM

Tetracycloide, the change only affects gem upgrade searches, not item searches, and only if you have Metagem Gemrequire enabled.