Slyven

Yeah, I was pretty much hoping for someone to tell me its fine to stay with the swords. Cause I like swords (like every rogue ever rolled). I will just give it a whirl and if there is not much change in my DPS I will probably just stay swords

Was just hoping for a way to keep my class lead of my nuts.

 

Darmoed

How hard is it add a totem twisting option for the shaman buffs?

Thanks.

 

Dorvan

Simply selecting Windfury as your weapon buff and Grace of Air under the buff list should cover that.

 

sp00n

Just that, AFAIK, GoA uptime will be about 80% with totem twisting and not 100%.

 

Najani

I smell rogue tanking all over the latest updated of the spreadsheet. I appreciate the changes :-)

 

Timujingeo

Quick question for the experts in here if you would.
Courtesy of the theorycraft in the forums I know that rupture is the 'best' finisher after SnD on bleedable bosses. However, the problem I have is that recently my dps has suffered in BT using rupture. It seems that my ruptures are being cancelled by us hitting the boss dot cap.
Does anyone know if the amount of available slots has been reduced?
In order to compensate I've taken to using evis instead and to be honest my average dps has gone way above what I was achieving with rupture which goes against the theory.
I asked our rogue CM about this and his take on it is that 5 pt. rupture will do an average of 2k damage assuming it doesn't get overwritten. A 5 pt. evis will vary from 1100-3700k but of course it's instant so no chance to get cancelled.
Of course one big problem with the spike damage of evis is the aggro, but to be honest I think I'll be using evis from now on as rupture just seems to not work very well in our raids.

 

dinesh

I have heard nothing about the debuff stack decreasing in size. If your ruptures are being pushed off, it will have obvious detrimental effects on your DPS. Though in these cases, your best bet is to work with your raid to identify what is going on and take different steps - I'm pretty sure switching from DP to IP or sharpening stones is a better tradeoff to avoid rogue debuffs.

There have been several explanations of why rupture is superior to eviscerate, most recent is probably in the locked rogue thread which preceded this one. I would use the search feature to look it up. The TTT article about rogues hints briefly at the derivation as well - basically, rupture costs less energy, allowing you to spend more of your energy on SS.

 

Left

In more detail: 5 pt. Rupture is free with Relentless Strikes, 5 pt. Eviscerate costs 10 energy. The energy difference, coupled with Mangle and armor reduction, cause Rupture to pull fairly far ahead. If Rupture is falling off, the first thing to do is to look for other unnecessary or low-priority debuffs in the raid and try to eliminate them first. (Also, Deadly poison -> Instant poison is not a good tradeoff if there is an Elemental shaman in the raid. Just go to a sharpening stone.)

 

Coffin Burier

Assume that the DPS Spreadsheet says I should have a 41% crit change (raid buffed), which is exact. Why Recount says my crit change never gets over 38% during most fights (if not dropping very close to 30%, which seems to be a big error)? This is true both for yellow damage and white damage (the second tends to be never higher then 33%).

I'm Seal Fate/Hemo and the Crit Change really makes the difference to me. You can see my equip on the armory. Anyway, my hit rating is 215 and my expertise rating is 44 (raid buffed).

During the encounters I'm talking about, all my party buffs have been up for the whole time. I've been taking some screenshots of Recount during the last months to keep a database of my results. Sometimes my crit change is right, and when that happens, I'm usually the top dps in the raid.

What I would like to know is if there a known issue about the crit changes in raid, please. Thank you.

 

RobertM

I've just started using this spreadsheet and I quite like it so far. However, one thing I find rather odd... I know Mongoose is supposed to be better than Executioner as an enchant, but I'm being told by the spreadsheet that putting Executioner on my MH (which is currently un-enchanted, as I got it recently) will actually lower my DPS. Now that just doesn't make any sense to me...

It's also saying that Major Striking is a much better enchant for my Blade of Serration than Mongoose, which is also contrary to conventional wisdom. Now, I'm fine with that—conventional wisdom is often wrong—but I just want to make sure that these aren't manifestations of some kind of bug...

 

Timujingeo

I've heard that double mongoose is better until you get enough T6 to make the executioner ArP a better choice for MH. I'm sure there are better qualified experts than me to explain the mechanics of why though.

 

Wickedchild

I would have to guess that you are reading the spreadsheet wrong, or have some odd options or build set in, cause I just imported your gear from the armory and everything seems in order...
Mongoose>Executioner>20agi>7dmg.

I didnt fiddle with my raid buff options cause I assumed yours wouldnt be much different, nor would it make SUCH a difference.
Maybe try downloading the sheet again and do a simple import from armory and check if it works better.

 

Left

This seems odd. On average, your crit rate should be what the sheet shows (as long as all your relevant buffs are always up). I take it you are comparing to WWS or Recount, as opposed to your character sheet? Your character sheet in game will not show the crit contribution of Mongoose (unless you look during a Mongoose proc), but the spreadsheet does take that into account.

As for not actually hitting your crit potential, it really does sound like some combination of buffs/debuffs aren't there and/or that you are counting trash in the mix. Trash will most likely reduce your crit rate, since temporary buffs aren't necessarily up. Do you take a Ret paladin for Improved Judgment of the Crusader? If so, does he always judge every single mob, even trash? (I would think he wouldn't.) That's 3% crit. Does your shaman twist Grace of Air? Does he use GoA for trash pulls as well as boss pulls? If not, that's another few percent. Are you in a group with a feral druid? If so, are you always in range of your druid for all pulls? If not, that's 5%. Etc.

 

Dontmindme

This could also be a result of procable crit rating items. The spreadsheet models a "perfect" fight where one always attacks from behind and never has to move. The result of this for procable items is a much higher uptime compared to situations where you move a lot. Just considering Mongoose, in a static fight it will be up say half the time. If you are moving around a lot, the proc uptime won't necessarily be fully utilized, hence the agility benefit and uptime will dip.

The same issue may affect other debuffs from your party members as if they move, the debuffs may drop or show lower uptimes as well.

 

Coffin Burier

I'm just talking about bosses. My party makeup is 3 Rogues and 1 Feral Druid, plus and Hunter or Ret Paladin. I'll start taking some screens of my bad performance, A simple example: my unbuffued crit chance is 30% crit change. It happens more then once that my actual crit change on a boss is lower then 30% buffed... that should be impossible (if you count the crit increase from Elixirs and Food).

 

Dorvan

A WWS parse would be much more helpful than some screenshots in helping you figure out what's going on.

Some candidates are variance in your rolls (lucky or unlucky), variance in mongoose procs....beyond that I don't have great ideas offhand, but it's hard to say more about hat's going on without a combat log.

 

tetracycloide

There is no such thing as impossbile when it comes to percentage chance based mechanics. You could have a 40% crit rate and never crit on any attack for an entire fight. While the probability is so small that it is next to impossible for this to occur next to impossible is still significantly different from impossible.

My vanity is justified.

 

RobertM

Well, FWIW, I turned all the raid buffs off, since I rarely do more than Kara and can't depend on having access to any class and their buff(s). Now, I turned the raid buffs off manually below my gear not using the "Disable Buffs" option on the talent page. I also have Instant Poison on my MH as a result.

As far as reading it wrong, here's what I see: I put in my gear, make sure my spec is set to "Combat-Daggers," fix the buffs, then click "Save DPS" (which is 729.47 DPS, BTW). The two "difference" cells read 0.00 and 0.00%. Now, I add Executioner to my MH—where there is currently no "MH Enchant"—and the difference cells read -2.18 and -0.30%. If I do Mongoose, I get 3.73/0.51%; Major Striking: 6.61/0.90%.

 

Left

RobertM, I'm not able to duplicate your results. Here is what I did:

1) Opened my copy of the sheet
2) Imported your current gear from the armory
3) Set the spec to Combat-Daggers via the macro
4) Manually set all the buffs to "off", including removing Windfury from your mainhand weapon and replacing it with instant poison
5) Set Executioner, Mongoose, and Major Striking as your mainhand enchant

I got these results:
Unbuffed DPS (before adding enchants) -> 764.15
w/ Executioner -> +9.09 (+1.18%)
w/ Mongoose -> +14.97 (+1.92%)
w/ Major Striking -> +6.55 (+0.85%)

I'm not sure where you are getting such a low DPS base number from. I have "Melee Boss" selected (highest armor possible), so the number I'm getting should be the absolute lowest point. And I'm certainly not seeing the enchant behavior you are referencing.

 

Kakon

For some reason with the newest spreadsheet I cant view anything to change my gear items, also doesnt show the Buffed/Unbuffed boxes anymore.

 

RobertM

I guess I'll download the Spreadsheet again and try to re-do the process. Maybe my copy is bugged.

 

RobertM

Okay, I went to http://rogue.raidcal.com/ and downloaded the spreadsheet again.

I imported from Armory my character (Goruthos on Lightbringer (US)). I went to the talent page and set it to Combat-Daggers (which did nothing, but it makes me feel better). I switched my MH Temp Enchant to Instant Poison, then went down to Boss debuffs, Raid Buffs, and Consumables and changed all of them to 0. I then clicked "Save DPS."

I put Executioner on my un-enchanted MH. Difference = -1.88, -0.25%.

I am using Excel 2002 (10.6841.6839) SP3, FWIW.

 

Coffin Burier

That's what I've always been thinking for quite a long time. The problem is that the other two sword rogues, don't seems to have the same problem. They're more hit dependent.

Can you give me a link that could help me creating a WWS parse? Thank you.

 

Dorvan

First of all, you need a combat log of your raid. The simplest way to do this is to type /combatlog at the start of your raid to being recording, then type /combatlog at the end to stop (if you begin regularly using combat logging, a mod like LoggerHead will allow you to automatically log only in certain instances).

After the raid, quit wow and go to the /Logs/ folder inside your WoW folder. There you'll find a file called something close to WoWCombatLog.txt

Go to Wow Web Stats and create a free account

Then click on start WWS client. It'll ask you to select a log file to upload. Select the combat log file you found earlier, make a note about the log in the appropriate field if desired, then click Host Report. It'll take a few seconds then provide you a link to your WWS report, which will remain available for 15 days. Here's a sample report, showing Hex/Zul'jin, Gruul's Lair, and Magtheridon:

Wow Web Stats


WWS is a great tool for measuring player performance and diagnosing what's working or not on a fight. In my opinion all serious raids should be running it.

 

Kammy

Hi
Using the latest version of the spreadsheet it tells me that using the build below with a 5s5r rotation my personal DPS will be 8DPS lower than combat swords - i was wondering as it seems pretty obvious that the raid buff from hemo will outweigh my personal dps loss of 8...so why doesn't everyone do this? Or am i missing something?

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

sunwell/bt geared btw with MH warglaive.