Arakas

Seconded.

And while the rotation can be put into the spreadsheet, the spreadsheet still focuses on individual DPS. It will not be able to capture an important ratio: the raid DPS benefit to individual DPS lost. Though if it were a checkbox with 'Force ImpXA Rotation", you'd be able to see the second half pretty clearly.

 

Left

I'm the one that redid the cycle model for Mutilate in the current sheet. This is something I would like to get to... eventually when I have time. (IE, probably not for a while.) However, see my post in the mutilate thread for my opinions on the matter.

In the meantime, if you want to look at it yourself, try looking at the timing on the SnD/Rupture/Evis cycles, then maybe copying one of them and deleting the Eviscerate damage. It should give you an idea of what your cycle damage would look like.

 

choumarin

While doing some calculation on Envenom dpe, I think I've found an error in the 2.4.2.2 spreadsheet:
The cells E43:E47 of the 'Buffed Cycles' tab refers to a name 'vp', wich is in the middle of nowhere. Can I assume the intended name 'allowenv' ?
Also those cells doesn't seem to be used anywhere, are they depreciated / not implemented?

 

Left

If I had to guess, I'd say "VP" is a reference to "Vile Poisons", and should probably point to whatever the correct cell for Vile Poisons is now. However, the construction of those cells is a holdover from the previous cycle model, as I never got around to implementing Envenom cycles in the new model before other things took over my life. They aren't deprecated, but they are not implemented either. (I believe the patch notes for the new cycle, a few sheet versions back, makes a note that Envenom is not currently implemented.)

 

Cheshyr

Is it possible for the spreadsheet to take into account gems when running the gear upgrade button? I've run into situations where it says one piece of gear is an upgrade, but it's really a downgrade when you account for the gems present in the alternate set of gear. I rolled on the H MgT shoulders today because the spreadsheet says it's an upgrade, but when I actually put it into the spreadsheet, it says it's almost a 2dps downgrade. I know 2dps isn't a big deal, but there was another rogue in the party that could have used it more. It would be nice if the gear upgrade option took into account the gems in the existing gear.

The specific gear involved was the Shoulderpads of the Silvermoon Retainer vs Merciless Gladiator's Leather Spaulders with Bright Crimson Spinel and Glinting Pyrestone gemmed.

Edit: I'm not blaming the spreadsheet for my own stupidity. I should have been more thorough in my investigation before rolling need, and I'm going to make it up to the rogue in question. I just thought this would be a nice feature that'd make the spreadsheet a little easier to use.

 

dinesh

It does include gems. It includes everything settable for the item - all the macro does is swap the new item in, then look at the change in DPS that results.

The issue is that the algorithm in place isn't perfect if the new piece has a different set of gem slots than the old piece. I don't even remember which algorithm it uses (I think it just uses whatever gem was set in that slot the last time you had a piece of gear in there which enabled that slot).

Having said that, I'm not sure how you could have an upgrade that turns into a downgrade. If the item swap produced a result which was a DPS upgrade using the macro, you should be able to use those exact gems and enchants to get the same upgrade.

 

Cheshyr

The hover-over said the h mgt shoulders were an upgrade. When I actually selected those shoulders from the drop-down, my dps dropped. It appears that the h mgt shoulders would have been an upgrade if it had the same gem slots, but since it doesn't, it's a downgrade. So yeah, the gem algorithm isn't perfect, as you said. The difference between the two was only 2.4dps, so that's why it worked out the way it did. The gems actually make the shoulders that would otherwise be worse, be better. Incremental upgrades suck. :-p

I was just posting it in case it was a bug instead of an algorithmic decision. Now that i know it's there, I'll actually select the gear and check the dps, instead of just trusting the comment-hover info.

 

dinesh

Hmm. Maybe I am wrong, and it rechecks DPS using the gems of your current piece, not waiting for the lookup to enable/disable the new gem slots and bonuses. If this is the case, it may b a limitation of the macroing we do, so I'm not sure whether it would be a bug or a limitation.

 

Left

You did run the macro first, correct? If you don't run the "upgrade" macro every time you have a gear change then whatever the comment contains will be wrong.

I don't really see how the sheet could tell you it was an upgrade when it wasn't either, since I'm pretty sure all the macro does is switch items into the slot in question in order to create that comment text. There is even a setting on the "Gear_Buffs" sheet which allows you to set a minimum DPS upgrade to consider. (I often set 5 DPS as the minimum upgrade, since at, and especially below, that level you are getting into the margin of error of the sheet.)

 

Arioche

Correct, the macro just changes the items, using the last type of gems used in the new slots. It does not match socket colors or optimize it for anything else. The same holds true for the enchants currently on the item. I wrote it, i should know :P

 

• Rerox

I would guess, that the missing gem slots caused your meta gem to be deactivated.
The item upgrade macro disables the "metagem gemrequirements" checkbox.

So while checking for upgrades the metagem is "always active" since the sheet expects you to keep an eye on the meta for yourself and since it would skew the upgrade values drastically if the meta would deactivate every time the item or sockets change when cycling through the equipment.

When you finally select/equip the item manually the "metagem gemrequire" checkbox is active again, causing you to lose dps if the mega gem is suddenly inactive due to missing gemcolors in your equipment.

 

Clooney

hey guys hope u can help me out here

i have 3 pices of T6 Head, Shoulders, and Gloves.

The spreadsheet tells me that if i replace my Trousers of the Scryers' Retainer with T6 legs that i will lose 22,47 dps
even tho i get my 4 pice bonus how could that be ? are Trousers of the Scryers' Retainer really that good.

Clooney Out!

 

Ratak - US KT

Not 'that' good - check the Metagem George as there is one less gem slot in the Slayer's Legs

 

Clooney

yes ofc thanks

 

Cheshyr

You are correct. It was metagem activation. Is there a place where that is indicated, that I'm just missing? It appears a lot of people are missing that.

Also, is there a reason my crit% is always off by a percent or two? I understand the AP calcs take into account my on use trinkets, but I can't find where it's finding the extra 1.44% crit, even after running the AEP recalc macro. Similarly, my dodge is inflated 3-4%. All buffs are turned off.

 

• Aldriana

1.44% sounds about right for Mongoose uptime - could that be it?

 

Cheshyr

Ahh.. ok. Mongoose agi buff accounts for all the discrepancies. I removed the mongoose enchant from both weapons, and they became more reasonable. Not exactly right, but within 0.5%.

Thanks.

 

Tziva

Thanks again for maintaining this spreadsheet. It’s priceless to rogues everywhere.

Quick question: if I have pretty significant discrepancies between current and [recently] past spreadsheets between the value of certain items, and nothing in the changelog seems like anything that would effect the difference between last version and the next… is this something that might be of consequence to your development?

Basically, I’m sitting on a few MH main-hand weapons, all of seemingly similar value. Determining which is best is what a spreadsheet is for, right? However, I’ve input all of them in the last three spreadsheets and each time I’ve gotten pretty different results (while the rest of my gear and raid buffs remain unchanged).

Of course, common sense says I should just trust the most current, but after seeing it change so many times, I’m second-guessing now which one is truly the best.

Anyway, I’ll go with the current sheet, but if you think this is anything worth looking into, I can offer more details.

 

Left

The sheet also accounts for level difference as well as other various agility buffs (not just Mongoose). Chances are displayed spreadsheet crit won't be the same as your character screen values.

Look into whether or not you are running the AEP Macro after inputting your gear (or manually doing the copy-paste procedure for adjusting proc uptimes as described for OpenOffice). There has been some discussion of this before, but here is the brief version:

The spreadsheet finds a calculated difference between your original (estimated) and final (computed) proc uptimes, then adjusts your DPS according to the difference in average stats. This works well most of the time, but not for large differences. The reason is that it uses AEP values for these calculations that may not be valid for you. If these AEP values change between versions of the sheet, or if your gear/spec changes, or even if the last person to save the sheet (ie, the author) ran the macro and made all the proc estimates adjust, then you can see odd discrepencies.

This is a known issue, but the basic response is that in successive spreadsheet versions you should be able to run the AEP macro after the same set of gear in each and get very similar results.

EDIT: I found the original context for figuring out the issue. I'm not sure anyone has found a good way to fix it, but there are two decent workarounds as explained in my previous post here. (Read a few posts before and after for context.)

 

• Rerox

Does anyone have the time and knowledge of the sheet to implement a WotLK-Version of the sheet with the new combat raitings, the new abilities and a variable character-level?

Of course I know the new talents are not implemented or finished yet, but it would be very nice to check new gear, new weapons, new enchants and racials against increasing player-levels and thus decreasing stats due to scaling combat ratings.

By the way does anyone know where DMM got lost? Or is it just vacation time?

 

drumbum

There's more to it than simply changing everything for level 80 conversion rates. There are also many new talents to implement. The only sheet that currently supports WOTLK is Vulajin's Roguecraft Spreadsheet (which is largely helped by the fact that Vulajin has been playing on the beta).

 

Dontmindme

Actually, I was on vacation this week. In terms of updates, pretty much, the spreadsheet is staying as it is for the time being. I feel as though it answers the questions we need until the expansion.

In terms of the expansion, I don't feel comfortable in the mechanics stability of the current beta. So many major things have been changed and mechanics are changing all the time. Besides, it appears that rogue balancing hasn't been addressed yet. I plan to do something when rogue skill and the mechanics seem more static. Extra attacks mechanics have changed significantly. Blizzard has stated they may make changes to DPS Warriors which could affect melee mechanics overall. Basically I think it best to wait for now Besides, Vulajin has a beta spreadsheet out. He also has been testing since Alpha so I'd trust that for now for those really curious. I don't think there needs to be a 2nd spreadsheet for the ever-changing beta. My goal is to have this one up to speed near the release date.

 

icjaker

I'm sure this has been answered somewhere in here, but I created an account because this one baffled me a bit.

When I select the Vision of Sargeras and put on my 4 piece Hyjal/BT (gloves, legs, chest, shoulders) set pieces, it drops my DPS down almost 40 points. I regemmed a couple pyrestones for hit with the lionseye but it only made about a 6 dps difference.

My chance to miss goes from capped down 1% - but the helm should make up the difference shouldn't it?

Should I pass on the Cursed Vision and keep my 4 piece bonus (helm, shoulders, gloves, chest)with the Trousers of the Scryer Retainer?

 

Ticia

Just a guess, but 90% of the perceived oddities with switching gear around in the spreadsheets comes from meta gem activation. Are you sure that by switching from the Badge Legs (which have 2 sockets) to the T6 (which only have 1) you aren't losing an important gem for your meta gem activation?

 

Capek

There were some changes made recently based on new findings about Windfury and Sword proc rates by Vulajin which resulted in swords gaining a few DPS over fists. I'm not in the position to link the discussion currently as I'm posting from a phone but this could be the cause of your sheet discrepancies.
If I recall correctly it lead to changes such as Talon of Azshara becoming better than Vanir's Right Fist etc.