About half an hour ago I (Enhancement Shaman) was in a heroic mech group with a rogue. A fairly interesting combat-fists rogue. His armory is here.

In any case, it was a Rogue/Retridin/Enh Shaman/Prot Paladin/Disc Priest setup. Being the smartarse shaman I am I've thoroughly researched class benefits and I all-knowingly tell my group I'm dropping Windfury totem.

The tank smiles (It's not as good as WoA, but it's better than nothing.) The retridin shrugs (I'll pull aggro with it.) The rogue proceeds to ask for GoA (WF gives me less DPS than GoA + Poison.)

Of course I ignored the rogue and told him to take off his mainhand weapon poison because it was WF he was getting. Having my own 70 rogue I afterall knew WF was a greater buff than GoA and poisons alone were. When he refused to remove his mainhand poison, I told him it was either his poison or his group spot and to stop wasting my time. In the end he sacrificed his group spot, much to his chagrin.

In a brief moment of weakness I put my ego aside and actually browsed up to make sure I was on the ball with this. I've done too many heroic groups to put up with rogues who's heads are stuck up their own ar-- In the clouds, so to speak. I headed on to Roguecraft 101

This rogue kept citing the spreadsheet (http://rogue.raidcal.com) insistently to me. Which brought me here. Apparently with his gear GoA was more beneficial to him than Windfury.

While I am quite sure I was right to heave him from the group in quite an undignified fashion simply due to his refusal to work with me dropping WF for the retridin, were his calculations with GoA and this spreadsheet correct and do I still have a lot to learn about the most beneficial totems for each individual member of my group? Is the spreadsheet bugged in some way to put GoA as a greater benefit than WF for a combat-fists rogue or does the old manta of WF > GoA not hold true in all cases or is it just another clueless rogue who can't calculate even when everything is handed to him on a spreadsheet-themed plate?

I am aware I could have totem twisted and solved it all, but it's just heroic mech. It's too much fuss.

If he wants GoA + Instant Poison, I'd say just give it to him. It helps you more and the Retadin didn't care...

WF helps more for Sword Specced rogues than for Fist Specced ones. Even for Sword Spec, in low-buff settings (ie, Heroic Mech), WF isn't going to beat out GoA + IP by all that much.

And if you ever get a Mutilate rogue, don't insist on WF. GoA is hands-down better for Mutilate rogues.

EDIT: I take this back. With the cycles model I'm operating from now, GoA + IP is still inferior (by about 16 DPS) to WF. Interesting. I guess WF was just really undermodeled back in the day.

Actually, since I remodeled WF, I'm showing for my own gear about an 80 DPS increase with WF than IP and GoA from the spreadsheet (well at least the current beta version). Granted I'm combat swords now, but the difference is huge and should still apply to combat fists. Furthermore, the spreadsheet does not yet model an anomaly where the WF proc actually lasts about 1 sec and gives added attack power to more than just the WF attack itself.

Even without this, in my current working copy of the spreadsheet (which doesn't yet include the above mentioned benefit), importing his gear from the armory, using the default buffs, I'm showing Windfury as a 55 DPS increase over IP/GoA. Granted in a 5-man the buffs may be fewer, but I cannot imagine GoA/IP being worth more than WF

There was a time where Windfury was somewhat under-modeled, but this has been corrected for awhile now. Short story is you were correct, that rogue was wrong.

Edit: Reducing the buffs to those I'd expect from that group, I'm showing still a 42 DPS increase from WF. I should also add that the difference is huge if GoA isn't dropped. Instant Poison by itself is nowhere close.

EDIT: Removed due to confusion on my part. Thanks DMM.

Regardless, I don't think the difference between IP + GoA and WF is a big enough deal to make such a fuss over, especially for something like heroic mech.

Suggestion:

For the upgrade option, "both" currently works as "either"
The macro line looks like this:
If NewDPS > CurrentDPS + MinimumDps Or BuffedNewDPS > BuffedCurrentDPS + MinimumDps Then

It would be best to have "both" and "either" as separate options.

I was toying a bit with the idea of having more space at the top of the spreadsheet.
Which would be possible once the unbuffed stats are removed.



Keep in mind these are just ideas.

The CP block (not displayed in the image) could be merged into 1 line: "Optimum Cycle: 4s/5r snd cut".
This would give more room under that line.

Under the CP usage block, it may be nice to have an expected rupture / SnD uptime value.
The expected energy usage, CP usage, Energy generated trough combat potency.

For the other values (topleft to bottom right) :
Armor reduction, miss chance, hit chance, hit rating.
Health, dodge chance, crit chance, haste, haste rating.
Resilience, chance for your attacks to be dodged, attack power, expertise, expertise rating.

In retrospect i'd swap atk dodge and AP and possibly a few others. Also displaying the incoming crit reduction from resilience may be useful.
If the uptime block was made 1 cell wider, then the other cells could shift 1 right and have room for the resilience crit reduction.

Whops, I actually hadn't thought of that, since I am currently using edgewalkers and netherblade breeches, so my deep shadow was the best option.

Also the side notes that with the gear I suggested you have to farm over 200 badges, more if you opt for the vanir's fists instead of the merciless swords. This amount might be a bit excessive for the casual raider, or alts.

I think my math is correct.
You are trying to multiply the crit rate with the dps AFTER reducing it by the miss rate - we all know that is not how the hit table works.

Thanks! This is the thing I was missing. Though I am still surprised it adds up up to 15% difference.
I assure you I did not post without trying to find some references earlier, but there is just too many posts in the 2 threads. I am not a regular here, and it's hard to read all that stuff in one go. If that's no too much to ask, on which pages was that issue discussed?

I see the benefit of displaying something like the change in HP, since it's entirely separate from DPS. However, I don't see the point in showing the change in DPS related stats. To be blunt, stats like agility and attack power don't mean anything useful by themselves. The only thing that matters is the resulting DPS, but if you start adding columns that turn red if your hit rating (for example) decreases, then it's going to send the wrong message to the user -- that losing hit rating is automatically a bad thing.