kargathia

Maybe my case isn't original, where I took enchanting on my warrior, and in the end chose tailoring as secondary profession, to provide disenchantable items, and to help out my mage who I'd be leveling after with cloth CD's.

"...vincer potero dentro a me l'ardore
ch'i' ebbi a divenir del mondo esperto
e de li vizi umani e del valore"

 

ant1pathy

Or how people will be taking BS now for the sockets? Very much considering it on my Rogue (vs. Inscript or JC), even though I know the weapons will be replaced quickly.

 

kwinto

From MH only or from OH as well?
What about other "chance on hit" effects? We can assume they will proc too, can't we?

And well, may be tricky to test it on dummy, but I wonder if killing spree can be used while disarmed (I doubt) or can a rogue be disarmed while on Killing Spree.

I know that things will change about fourty times before WotLK or even 3.0.2, but I'm looking forward to read some new blog entries about rogues in Northrend

 

Akka

Blacksmithing, being able to build weapons, always had some relationship with mélée class, even it had a much tighter one with plate classes.
This is a distinct difference compared to tailoring, which had a complete and total disconnection with physical damage.

If violence doesn't solve your problem...
... you simply haven't been violent enough !

 

Tryss

As kargathia mentioned, melee typically take Tailoring to feed Enchanting ... it doesn't take a gathering profession to make greens/blues to DE. Also, they may want bags or to sell specialty cloth. Netherweave Nets can come in handy, too.

There is also the occasional cloak with melee stats, or I guess if people like making the "RP" clothing, like shirts or Tuxedos or something.

I think it's just a nod from Blizzard that melee Tailors exist, not an indication they are going to do something to Tailoring that will attract a lot of melee.

 

◊ chalon

You can't do this anymore. Any of the enchants that require a specific profession, if you drop the profession the enchant turns red on your item (as well as the specific profession requirement). So the only min/maxing you can do is which two professions you choose.

 

Arindelest

While the inability to use Specials during Killing Spree is annoying, it does not actually change anything because you can easily pool and you will only ever be getting 25 energy during the Spree (and just have to make sure you do not cap out).

Auto-attack turning off, on the other hand, is a serious nerf to the ability. If we assume Windfury Totem, Slice and Dice, 44 passive Haste Rating (since that's what I have) and Blade Flurry used on Cooldown, and 1 Heroism in 6 minutes (Brutallus).

Hasted Speed (MH) = 2.6 / ( (1+(35%)) * (1+(20%)) * (1+(2.5%)) * (1+(3.33%)) * (1+(((44)/100)/15.7)) ) = 1.523

OH = 1.4 / ( (1+(35%)) * (1+(20%)) * (1+(2.5%)) * (1+(3.33%)) * (1+(((44)/100)/15.7)) ) = 0.820

So in 2.5 seconds I get 1.641 MH attacks and 3.04 OH attacks normally. So about a 55% nerf to OH damage during the spree, and a 40% nerf to MH damage.

In addition, if we assume Combat Potency is 3 energy per second, Killing Spree also costs us 7.5 energy.

 

Underz

Is this confirmed? If so very unexpected as blizzard know the situation between combat and mutilate. I dont see them nerfing another combat talent because its just giving themselves more work. It just seems pointless.

 

Beefyfife

Lemme just CttC after reading through about 40 pages and still not being able to find what I want..what have the meters been saying about the new talents before WotLK that are about to be implemented? Perhaps I am in the wrong forum, but I am trying to decide between remaining swords(Blade of Infamy and Savagery) in the combat tree, going purely muta spec, or speccing a MH Fist/OH Sword or Dagger spec with the new talents. I have the option of picking up the Badge MH or Dagger MH to go along with my Blade of Savagery/Dagger Badge OH. Normally I would DL a spreadsheet program but my laptop is unable to handle it without crashing at this time. So much like the meters have been in the favor of Combat swords for a long time, what is rising to the top of the new specs?

 

◊ Shaker

Just read back a few pages and you'll see in pretty clear language what everyone sees as the top few builds.

Consistency. It's only a virtue if you're not a screwup.

 

Tinwhisker

Beefyfife, just remember that several talents and skills are still very much subject to change. The trees are probably starting to look like their final forms for release of 3.x but don't put all your eggs in one basket. At this point even minor changes could change the types of daggers you want and other gear deciding outcomes. Be informed and prepared but don't set your path in stone by any means.

I'll tell you what I'm going to do (in order of importance).

1. Keep all the weapons you have, don't vendor anything (duh).
2. Spend DKP on weapon types you don't have (eg a fast dagger).
3. Save enough badges enough to buy the 1-2 weapons you don't have when 3.x drops and to re-gem the appropriate gear set (about 11-12 gems should do most people). That's 330 badges or so.
4. Keep enough enchanting mats in the bank (don't expect the AH to have any when 3.x drops) to do 3 mongoose enchants.

If you've done that, just sit back and let the skills fall where they may. When 3.x drops you'll be able to spec/gear appropriately without having to do anything drastic.

You're a lot of DPS, you know that? You wanna' earn 14 achievement points the hard way?

 

Cybelirrae

I do not believe anyone has posted a link to this, but there was an official blue response on our beta forums today that they are still looking to boost combat. Link below:

Rogue Beta Forums Blue Post re: Combat Damage needing a boost

Quote is below:

Koraa said:

 

KasumiRevy

So I was thinking about a Utility spec, and came up with:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...11000000000000

Hemo spam with Master Poisoner, Improved Expose armor and Focused Attacks. Anyone have some general thoughts about the spec?

 

◊ chalon

Well, first of all the raid DPS boost of Hemo is so low that I just don't see it as useful utility worth specifically speccing for. That specific spec you have misses out on so much personal DPS that the addition of Hemo in it really doesn't make up for it. The second half of Assassination really doesn't have much synergy with Hemo.

That being said, with Surprise Attacks now also affecting Hemo, a build like this would be decent (let's say for the sake of argument you use a 2.8s mainhand fist weapon, and some sword off-hand):
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...01000000000000

Problem is if you think Combat Swords has a lot of filler talents right now, this spec has even more.

Some people were theorycrafting Combat Hemo specs several pages back, but I'm pretty sure it still lagged behind just a generic Combat build by a healthy margin.

EDIT: Fixed link, sorry.

 

Muddstah

I was thinking recently , scary I know, but with the changes to backstab if it would have any spot in a mutilate build? This is all hypothetically speaking mind you, but would it be a good use of say if Ruthlessness doesn't proc and you get a Muti BS to guarantee no pasted CB points ?

 

• Vulajin

A wasted combo point is far less significant than downgrading from Mutilate (our highest DPE combo move) to Backstab.

 

◊ chalon

Not to mention returning to Backstab has the whole positional annoyance associated with it. That being said a Combat Daggers build would "work" but it's just not going to be able to compete with other specs.

 

Chack

Why would you? Wasting CPs is not losing you any damage. Using an attack that deals less damage then another on the other hand is. BS is "about equal" to mutilate on an unpoisoned target - on a poisoned target mutilate is way superior in damage for the same energy.

 

Khazes

Ideally you wouldn't use Killing Spree while you have blade flurry or bloodlust up so I don't think you should include those normalized numbers in the calculation. The majority of your haste will come from WF and SnD anyway though so the point might be moot.

 

Arindelest

A fair point; however I would assume that you'd want to use it on cooldown and that the benefits of doing so would outweigh waiting out a Blade Flurry/(and especially) Heroism. Of course there's the negligible effects of Mongoose which naturally you wouldn't be able to predict, that's 2% or 4.04% attack speed right there which you might (or might not) have at any given point in time, and you could have a fraction of that based on whether they proc at some point during the Spree.

Finally you do lose a non-negligible amount of MH attacks from Sword Spec (assuming Sword Spec *did* work before on auto attacks during the Spree), By my count about 0.25 MH attacks. All in all I do think my estimates are in the right ballpark as to the degree of the nerf.

 

Pittaxx

Firstly, about weapon speed, putting all aside i'm perfectly happy in wielding faster weapons in general, sure itemization is poor but for now all i see is suggestions how to change mechanics so it would revert to "how we are used to play", how about suggesting how to improve itemization?



Anyways, i was looking into combat builds and came up with a few questions:

As i understand sword spec looses a bit of value due to WF removal and gains some due to poisons... so at this point how does it stand comparing to CQC? (i know that i'm going to level with my badge fists, but where do fists stand later on? or even Fist/FastDagger combo, for increased energy generation and bigger SS damage)

Is it still the case that OH sword-spec procs MH attacks? If it still is, Fist/Sword builds looks really nice as we can take both CQC and sword-spec by sacrificing fillers only. (something like this)

As i see it now, current combat tree allows us to mix our weapons a bit, not just run around with 2-of-a-kind.


Oh and has anyone done any testing with mace spec that i missed? I'd really hate to be running around with maces, but i'd still like to know...

Edit: (spelling) and as i have not seen many fast maces around... mace + dagger or fast fist by sacrificing fillers anyone? (awww reminds me of that mace+dagger set in vanila wow)

 

jdpowers19

Second that. I did a quick run through of the last several pages looking for some theorycraft on a 7/51/13 Mace spec/Serrated Blades type build. Is there any chance Mace Specs synergy with Serrated Blades could allow it compete with Swords or even Fists variant?

 

Jagiya

Considering the Armor Penetration Rating applies after Sunders and other such debuffs - not before - I'd say it's potential in a raid environment is fairly limited. For PvP and solo grinding however, it would be nice.

 

jdpowers19

Do we know yet what sort of armor values raid bosses at level 80 have? If so, I could spend a few minutes figuring out exactly what sort of damage increase it would be, depending on gear and debuffs of course.

 

• Aldriana

The info for that is in the Combat Ratings at 80 thread - for instance here.