Can someone with better combat log knowledge determine whether this is still the case? KS does not trigger BF attacks? There is so much synergy to be had there if they get it working / decide to implement it.
I'll run some combat logs later, but my scrolling combat text either was 2-4 seconds behind, or was indicating the two did work together.
Edit: see below for quick log.
Some other Stupid Killing Spree Tricks that make it a bit more worthwhile:
If you use it while rooted, it will keep you in melee range of your target - handy against the mages in kalecgos trash, hunters on gorefiends trash, etc.
I used against a mob being repositioned/moved - say a Phase 3 vashj - it's an excellent way to stay in melee range with very little work on your own part.
Edit: just ran out to nagrand and killed a pair of ogres. Autoattack was turned off.
FeĆ*st gains FeĆ*st's Blade Flurry.
FeĆ*st gains FeĆ*st's Killing Spree.
Warmaul Shaman's attack misses FeĆ*st.
FeĆ*st's Killing Spree hits Warmaul Shaman for 1036 Physical.(Critical)
FeĆ*st's Killing Spree hits Warmaul Shaman for 619 Physical.(Critical)
FeĆ*st's Killing Spree hits Warmaul Reaver for 434 Physical.
FeĆ*st's Killing Spree hits Warmaul Reaver for 286 Physical.
Warmaul Reaver's attack was dodged by FeĆ*st.
FeĆ*st gains FeĆ*st's Dragonspine Flurry.
FeĆ*st's Blade Flurry hits Warmaul Shaman for 434 Physical.
FeĆ*st's Blade Flurry hits Warmaul Shaman for 286 Physical.
FeĆ*st's Killing Spree hits Warmaul Reaver for 509 Physical.
FeĆ*st's Killing Spree hits Warmaul Reaver for 275 Physical.
FeĆ*st's Blade Flurry hits Warmaul Shaman for 509 Physical.
FeĆ*st's Blade Flurry hits Warmaul Shaman for 275 Physical.
FeĆ*st's Killing Spree hits Warmaul Shaman for 445 Physical.
FeĆ*st's Killing Spree hits Warmaul Shaman for 269 Physical.
FeĆ*st's Blade Flurry hits Warmaul Reaver for 445 Physical.
FeĆ*st's Blade Flurry hits Warmaul Reaver for 269 Physical.
FeĆ*st's Killing Spree fades from FeĆ*st.
Warmaul Shaman's melee swing hits FeĆ*st for 165 Physical.
FeĆ*st's Killing Spree hits Warmaul Reaver for 497 Physical.
FeĆ*st's Killing Spree hits Warmaul Reaver for 745 Physical.(Critical)
Warmaul Reaver's melee swing hits FeĆ*st for 161 Physical.
FeĆ*st's Blade Flurry hits Warmaul Shaman for 497 Physical.
FeĆ*st has slain Warmaul Shaman!
FeĆ*st's Blade Flurry hits Warmaul Shaman for 361 Physical.(384 Overkill)
Instant Poison does have a damage range, the average damage is 188 + 0.1*AP.
The other formulae for Wound and Deadly Poison listed are correct.
From the tooltip it says 161+0.1*AP, the spelldescription lists 161-215..we will have to check which of both is true.
But even with an average basedmg of 188 WP will be ahead of untalented IP
0.2*(188+0.1*AP) = 37.6 + 0.02*AP for IP per hit
0.5*(112+0.04*AP) = 56 + 0.02*AP for WP per hit
so WP does 18.4 more damage per hit, assuming 1.0 OH attackspeed (easyly reached with SnD+new WF) WP is 18.4 DPS ahead of IP
So, I'm seeking advice/observations. I finally got to try the new Assassination build yesterday. Very happy with the way it plays, but it's deffinitely more challenging and is going to take some time getting used to. Some advice on two things would be greatly appreciated:
1) Concerning refreshing SnD. Am I correct in that the idea is to squeeze as many Envenoms into the Rupture duraton as possible, even if it means severely clipping the SnD timer? When I was combat, I would pool energy to let SnD get as low as possible so that I would get the most out of that SnD. But now, pooling energy before an envenom seems like it's wasting Rutpure uptime since SnD is virtually guaranteed to always be up due to the sheer volume of envenoms I'm dishing out. Does this sound right? Pooling seems like it's much more situational than it was before.
Currently my "algorithm" on Assassination finisher rotations is this. ETA: We will be assuming that you will be keeping HfB refreshed through consistant monitoring.
Step 1) Envenom with 4+ CP to refresh SnD
Step 2) Is Rupture up?
If no, Rupture with 4+ CP and go back to Step 1
If yes, go to Step 3
Step 3) If you pool energy until the end of the current Rupture, will your energy cap?
If no, wait for Rupture to end, then Rupture with 4+ CP and go back to Step 1
If yes, go back to Step 1
Is this how you crazy kids are doing it these days, or am I way off base?
2) For my timer addon, I was using SliceCommander. It's not bad and it is functional, but I can't change the size of the bars and I also don't like the fact that is shows energy regen which is already on the UI. What have you guys been using to time your refreshes?
2) For my timer addon, I was using SliceCommander. It's not bad and it is functional, but I can't change the size of the bars and I also don't like the fact that is shows energy regen which is already on the UI. What have you guys been using to time your refreshes?
Cutup. I'd offer a link, but WoWinterface seems down for me atm.
So, I'm seeking advice/observations. I finally got to try the new Assassination build yesterday. Very happy with the way it plays, but it's deffinitely more challenging and is going to take some time getting used to. Some advice on two things would be greatly appreciated:
1) Concerning refreshing SnD. Am I correct in that the idea is to squeeze as many Envenoms into the Rupture duraton as possible, even if it means severely clipping the SnD timer? When I was combat, I would pool energy to let SnD get as low as possible so that I would get the most out of that SnD. But now, pooling energy before an envenom seems like it's wasting Rutpure uptime since SnD is virtually guaranteed to always be up due to the sheer volume of envenoms I'm dishing out. Does this sound right? Pooling seems like it's much more situational than it was before.
Currently my "algorithm" on Assassination finisher rotations is this:
Step 1) Envenom with 4+ CP to refresh SnD
Step 2) Is Rupture up?
If no, Rupture with 4+ CP and go back to Step 1
If yes, go to Step 3
Step 3) If you pool energy until the end of the current Rupture, will your energy cap?
If no, wait for Rupture to end, then Rupture with 4+ CP and go back to Step 1
If yes, go back to Step 1
Is this how you crazy kids are doing it these days, or am I way off base?
2) For my timer addon, I was using SliceCommander. It's not bad and it is functional, but I can't change the size of the bars and I also don't like the fact that is shows energy regen which is already on the UI. What have you guys been using to time your refreshes?
1. Why don't you have HfB?
2. I strongly recommend NeedToKnow. You have very customizable bars for whatever buffs you want, scale them, color them, etc. Just keep in mind when it asks for the buff name it's case sensitive so for instance "Hunger For Blood" must have a capital F.
Currently my "algorithm" on Assassination finisher rotations is this:
Because I was trying to present a solid consistant way to convey what finisher to use independant of HfB. I find it's easier to learn when you compartmentalize. :-)
We are going to assume that HfB will be monitored constantly and refreshed when low.
These indicate KS attacks do trigger BF attacks. That is just awesome for multiple target damage. The question now, is whether the extra BF damage that KS triggers outweighs the loss of yellow attack BF damage during KS.
Originally Posted by Feist-Mok
Edit: just ran out to nagrand and killed a pair of ogres. Autoattack was turned off.
Feļæ½*st gains Feļæ½*st's Blade Flurry.
Feļæ½*st gains Feļæ½*st's Killing Spree.
Warmaul Shaman's attack misses Feļæ½*st.
Feļæ½*st's Killing Spree hits Warmaul Shaman for 1036 Physical.(Critical)
Feļæ½*st's Killing Spree hits Warmaul Shaman for 619 Physical.(Critical)
Feļæ½*st's Killing Spree hits Warmaul Reaver for 434 Physical.
Feļæ½*st's Killing Spree hits Warmaul Reaver for 286 Physical.
Warmaul Reaver's attack was dodged by Feļæ½*st.
Feļæ½*st gains Feļæ½*st's Dragonspine Flurry.
Feļæ½*st's Blade Flurry hits Warmaul Shaman for 434 Physical.
Feļæ½*st's Blade Flurry hits Warmaul Shaman for 286 Physical.
Feļæ½*st's Killing Spree hits Warmaul Reaver for 509 Physical.
Feļæ½*st's Killing Spree hits Warmaul Reaver for 275 Physical.
Feļæ½*st's Blade Flurry hits Warmaul Shaman for 509 Physical.
Feļæ½*st's Blade Flurry hits Warmaul Shaman for 275 Physical.
Feļæ½*st's Killing Spree hits Warmaul Shaman for 445 Physical.
Feļæ½*st's Killing Spree hits Warmaul Shaman for 269 Physical.
Feļæ½*st's Blade Flurry hits Warmaul Reaver for 445 Physical.
Feļæ½*st's Blade Flurry hits Warmaul Reaver for 269 Physical.
Feļæ½*st's Killing Spree fades from Feļæ½*st.
Warmaul Shaman's melee swing hits Feļæ½*st for 165 Physical.
Feļæ½*st's Killing Spree hits Warmaul Reaver for 497 Physical.
Feļæ½*st's Killing Spree hits Warmaul Reaver for 745 Physical.(Critical)
Warmaul Reaver's melee swing hits Feļæ½*st for 161 Physical.
Feļæ½*st's Blade Flurry hits Warmaul Shaman for 497 Physical.
Feļæ½*st has slain Warmaul Shaman!
Feļæ½*st's Blade Flurry hits Warmaul Shaman for 361 Physical.(384 Overkill)
These indicate KS attacks do trigger BF attacks. That is just awesome for multiple target damage. The question now, is whether the extra BF damage that KS triggers outweighs the loss of yellow attack BF damage during KS.
Doesn't KS only last 5 seconds?
Seems to me that if you empty out your energy bar before hand, you shouldn't have to sacrifice any yellow attack BF damage.
Edit: just ran out to nagrand and killed a pair of ogres. Autoattack was turned off.
So the current live version KS turns off autoattack again? I had heard that they fixed that on the PTR. I guess synergizing with Blade Flurry makes up for that a bit, but that's disappointing.
So the current live version KS turns off autoattack again? I had heard that they fixed that on the PTR. I guess synergizing with Blade Flurry makes up for that a bit, but that's disappointing.
He manually turned it off to clean up his combat log. It keeps running.
So, I'm seeking advice/observations. I finally got to try the new Assassination build yesterday. Very happy with the way it plays, but it's deffinitely more challenging and is going to take some time getting used to. Some advice on two things would be greatly appreciated:
1) Concerning refreshing SnD. Am I correct in that the idea is to squeeze as many Envenoms into the Rupture duraton as possible, even if it means severely clipping the SnD timer? When I was combat, I would pool energy to let SnD get as low as possible so that I would get the most out of that SnD. But now, pooling energy before an envenom seems like it's wasting Rutpure uptime since SnD is virtually guaranteed to always be up due to the sheer volume of envenoms I'm dishing out. Does this sound right? Pooling seems like it's much more situational than it was before.
Currently my "algorithm" on Assassination finisher rotations is this. ETA: We will be assuming that you will be keeping HfB refreshed through consistant monitoring.
Step 1) Envenom with 4+ CP to refresh SnD
Step 2) Is Rupture up?
If no, Rupture with 4+ CP and go back to Step 1
If yes, go to Step 3
Step 3) If you pool energy until the end of the current Rupture, will your energy cap?
If no, wait for Rupture to end, then Rupture with 4+ CP and go back to Step 1
If yes, go back to Step 1
Is this how you crazy kids are doing it these days, or am I way off base?
2) For my timer addon, I was using SliceCommander. It's not bad and it is functional, but I can't change the size of the bars and I also don't like the fact that is shows energy regen which is already on the UI. What have you guys been using to time your refreshes?
I may just be following this incorrectly, but it seems your little state machine here has more emphasis on rupture than snd. What if step 3 comes around, and rupture will end before you get back up to full energy, but so will snd? In that case you should envenom instead of rupture.
I could use further clarification on buff maintenance strategy. Should we always focus on envenoming with 4+ cp, or should we focus more on keeping rupture up and using envenom either a) to keep snd up, or b) as an extra 4+ dmg finisher when the cycle allows?
The problem I ran into when dpsing on the dummy last night was I wasn't rupturing nearly as much as I'd like to. By the time I would get 4+ cp after an envenom, there would be less than 10 sec left on snd, so if I ruptured, I wouldn't have enough time to get another 4+ cp to envenom before snd ran out. To combat this, I would pool energy and envenom right when snd was about to end, letting me get 4 cp faster and get a rupture in with maybe 15 seconds left on snd, but there were a number of cycles where I wasn't able to fit a rupture in.
I think it may be due to my gear and spec, as I only have a 21% crit rate and 3 points in relentless, but a better idea how to work with that would be helpful.
The best priorities are what Aldriana posted earlier in the thread (ad libbing it here)
1. Don't ever EVER let HfB or SnD (refreshed via Envenom, NEVER Eviscerate) drop.
2. Maximize your Rupture uptime.
3. Do as many 4 or more CP Envenoms as possible provided it's not at the expense of rule #1 or #2.
The problem I ran into when dpsing on the dummy last night was I wasn't rupturing nearly as much as I'd like to.
Don't forget that most of the theorycrafting for such a rotation was done with the assumption that you'd have the SnD glyph and BT/Sunwell gear. When WotLK launches there will be the Rupture glyph as well.
The rules chalon just posted apply at all gear levels though.
While I'm a fan of the mod, I have to say I have not yet had good results with it since the patch. Envenom does not seem to be updating the SnD bar and there is no support for HfB. After reading a few of the author's responses in the Curse download thread, I feel pretty good about the SnD bug being fixed but the addition of HfB does not seem likely. Apparently the author is no longer playing the rogue class.
I've switched over to using SliceCommander. It has nice support for SnD and HfB and offers some options for audio indicators when timers are nearly expired. This may be a pretty handy feature while learning the mutilate rotation. Some of the default sounds are a little obnoxious but it should be easy to work around that. The size and positioning of the bars is a little clunky, though. I have been looking through the code and I'll post if I can find any useful tips for improving configuration.
How have people found Mutilate in a raid condition?
Last night was my first dig at it and while we only did a run through Black Temple where everything flopped over before I fell into a particularly good cycle Iām beginning to think that fights that require more attention to the goings on around you will put a fair bit of pressure on my simple male mind. On the dummy it was pretty easy to find my cycle (and will only get easier with the addition of the rupture glyph) but did require me to keep an eagle eye on my slice and dice, hunger for blood, rupture, exploit weakness, energy and combo points.
Iām a little concerned that while itās certainly more fun than what Iām sure to with the old combat sword setup, any lapse in concentration will be punished fairly severely with a drop in dps compared to the easier combat/killing spree build. With luck itās a matter of practice makes perfect but my niggling doubt remains.
I ran some tests on the level 70 target dummies in Orgrimmar last night with patch 3.02 live. Iām specced 5/51/5 Combat Swords/Fists. Following my results on the Vulaājinās spreadsheet, I only put 4 points in sword spec to get all the other dps talents.
My mainhand is Vanirās Fist of FALCON PUNCH!!!
My offhand is Akilāzonās Talonblade.
Each test was 5 minutes from behind the target dummy, with no buffs/debuffs from other players interfering. I used no elixirs or food buffs, and I used no cooldowns (AR, BF, etc) during the tests. My Glyphs are SnD and Sinister Strike. My old rotation before the patch was 1s/5r (had 2-piece tier 4 still). My gear is a mix of badges, ZA and H MrT.
Here are my results, rounded to the nearest 10.
Test 1: 1s/5r rotation. IP MH/DP OH 1150 dps
Though before the patch I could just barely pull 100% uptime on SnD and near-100% on Rupture, now I find myself wasting energy, being forced to clip one or the other.
Test 2: 5s/5r/5e rotation (e=evis). IP MH/DP OH 1260 dps
This felt a lot more like my old rotation, where I either just barely kept SnD up if I had an unlucky cycle, or had some energy pooled if I had a lucky cycle.
Test 3: 5s/5r/5e rotation. WP MH/DP OH 1350 dps
So on the current live game at level 70, at least for me, WP is giving nearly a 100 dps increase over IP for Combat.
I know this would have been more useful if I had thought to keep a combat log, but I noticed some mention of āhas this theorycrafting borne out in the real worldā in recent posts and wanted to chime in that it seems to have done so for me.
I can also second the observation that the Blade Flurry aoe effect works on Killing Spree attacks in the live game currently.
Hi, I've been keeping up with this forum alot lately. I noticed several pages ago that, it was ruled that just spamming Envenom instead of Rupture and Evenom was had an over all greater dps. Did this change when Vile Poison and the reduced poison damage change that to where it's now more favorable to have a Rupture/Evenom cycle? Sorry if this was already covered, I suppose I just missed it.
For watching HfB, SnD, Rupture I use Classtimer. Works very well, customizable bars, focus bars for timing sap, blind, etc... I like it, I like it a lot.
Also Icehud has a built in timer for SnD that I use instead.
The best priorities are what Aldriana posted earlier in the thread (ad libbing it here)
1. Don't ever EVER let HfB or SnD (refreshed via Envenom, NEVER Eviscerate) drop.
2. Maximize your Rupture uptime.
3. Do as many 4 or more CP Envenoms as possible provided it's not at the expense of rule #1 or #2.
I understand the priorities, but I'm a little foggy on how to maximize maintenance of the priorities.
Would it be acceptable to rupture, then only do a 1 pt envenom from ruth proc to refresh snd, or should I have just not ruptured, pooled energy, and envenomed with 4+ cp?
I understand a lot of my cycle issues were due to gear, and it will be easier once I get the snd glyph as well, but just general ways to deal with situations are helpful.
Has anyone given much thought to a Shiv build? I loaded the spreadsheet with the default gear and default spec, and simply changed the combo point builder from SS to Shiv and DPS went up big time, without even changing the spec. This was a typical combat spec with lots of Sinister Strike improvements (and the glyph too) and Shiv still came out on top.
Replacing the SS glyph with a Shiv glyph gives another significant boost, and messing with talents could probably yield even better results...
Can anyone tell me how accurately the spreadsheet models Shiv? Because if it's accurate... then it's looking REALLY good.
I;ve tried to find the answer to this question for the last 3 ours in this forum and i can;t find it. I know they say there is no magic number for how much hit you need when raiding. But the "non-magic number" for rogues before the patch was 364.
Does anyone know what the "non magic number" for a 51/5/5 rogue is post patch?
It is nice to have an overall number to aim towards.
10/15/08, 1:08 PM
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