If i recall correctly the accepted criteria was +2 wpn dmg for Dagger specs, +4 stats for all others. But currently with the AP scaling poison mech, i would expect +4 stats with any weapons to be better than +2dmg , although i cannot support this without hard facts.

Uhh... aim towards spreadsheet, IMO.

I agree with what you're saying. If that situation came up it would certainly be preferable to refresh SnD. But I found that I was throwing Envenom so much, I never had to worry about SnD dropping. I didn't have any glyphs, but I was rockin' the T4 2 piece set bonus to simulate having the SnD glyph. But I also admit that my tests weren't that robust. I thought I'd post here to see how people were deciding finishers before I went back to the cutting board.


Oh, you wanna know what the hit cap is? Ok well looking at the EJ Think Tank (Rogue: PvE DPS) We see that the caps with 5/5 precision are:

Specials: 64 hit rating
Whtie Attacks: 363 hit rating.

"For each ~15.77 hit rating you equip, you reduce your chance to miss by 1%"

Since precision gives us 5% hit we can then determine that we would need an aditional ~79 hit rating to reach those caps. So...

Specials: 143 hit rating
Whtie Attacks: 442 hit rating

However, you are not aiming for these numbers. This is just to make sure you don't go over the white hit cap, and thus waste stats. And keep in mind that once you surpass the special hit cap, the value of hit drops significantly.



ETA: Is the special hit cap the same as the poison/magic hit cap? I've always assumed it was, but I don't think I've seen any statements made about it either way.

Alrdy discussed several times, last time was on

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t27244-r...12/#post938188

.

So if you're that close to needing to refresh your SnD, you should just pool and hit Envenom in a few seconds. Then after you can refresh your Rupture. Try to avoid scenarios where you need to do a finisher with less than 4 CPs.

Pretty sure the answer is always +4 stats, but I haven't looked into it extensively.

Special cap is 9% (same ol' 63 hit rating after precision), Poison cap is 17% (190 hit rating after precision), and the white hit cap is 363, again, including precision.

Hit isn't a super important stat in the post-WF-as-a-weapon-enchant era, my general recommendation for people who have 300ish hit rating is to convert all their yellow +10 hit gems in yellow sockets to 5hit/5agi gems, and all their 5hit/5agi orange gems in red sockets to 10agi gems.

I'm only doing this so you'll stop destroying the rain forests singlehandedly, but in 'complete' T6 gear (i.e. mostly done with BT) I'd estimate you should be around the 2700-3k area, with any meaningful sunwell gear you should be clearing 3k. These are approximations, see the Roguecraft sheet for far better ones.

3k sounds more like a buffed dps figure. The answer like so many does depend on gear. I'd imagine t6 to be around the 1600-1800 unbuffed mark.

Sorry, that was intended to be a buffed number.

Killing spree is an unusual talent, or at the very least is going to require a lot of getting used to.

We cleared up to KJ last night in Sunwell, and I used KS on Brutallus, and having it warp you to the centre of the mob, immediately on the back of it was very disconcerting.

I believe that it would be fundamentally more useful if KS didn't move you from the current mob, if you're already in swing range, and only moved you if you actually had to move to go to a second, or third (or to get in range of the first mob).

I ended up being completely disoriented, and wandered out between the tanks and ate a meteor slash.

It is huge fun on the trash however - but the warping around is somewhat disconcerting, and probably a net DPS loss for me due to screwing up the positioning.

To answer your question in a roundabout way, i found mutilate and combat to do similar dps (on dummies) if you just stick to your normal rotation, once you start popping specials combat is stronger obviously. ~1600-1700 dps unbuffed & w/o specials.

On a side note i specced combat(5/51/5) for sunwell, and was really impressed. Pulled out 3.8k on brut (no gem changes), not sure if thats high compared to other rogues but i was very happy. (Another rogue that was Mut, did 3.2 ish fyi.)

One thing i am really unhappy with is Killing spree, or how it functions to be more precise. The biggest pain is when its over you kind of just land somewhere random, then you have to re position; doesn't sound like a big deal i know. Anyone else finding it a pain in the Ass, or am i just whinging.

What about Anesthesic Poison? Does it scales with AP too? If yes, would it outdps wound poison since it shows higher dmg on tooltip at the same proc rating?

Tonight I ran 4200 dps on brut, 4200 on kj. All in all dmg was way up. Now, how do I reconcile these numbers with the roguecraft spreadsheet which puts me at ~3400?

I don't know for certain, but I don't think Anesthetic poison scales with AP. At least Wowhead doesn't list it as scaling. And anecdotally, on Beta, Anesthetic Poison II outputs quite a bit less damage than Instant Poison IX.

EDIT:

FWIW a.) I don't think the sheet fully accounts for the dynamic nature of running 3 finisher cycles and b.) I'm guessing you guys killed him pretty fast tonight and/or had stacked Heroisms in a shorter length of time, so I'd suggest checking to make sure both the fight length and number of Heroisms you put into the sheet coincides to what you had.

We had 1 heroism and a 3 minute fight, which is what I entered in the sheet. I ran deadly main, wound oh as well.

I was under the assumption that wound mh was better then deadly mh. Any reason behind this?

Anyways, 4200 on kj and brute is rather impressive, we cleared Sunwell today as well and I was putting up 3600 on both brute and kj running only one glaive. I also didn't use ashtongue tonite, tried dst first, as I see in your armory you are running it, do you think that was a big reason your dps was so high?

Seems to be totally random to me, sometimes when I try it, I just remain behind the mob and swing 5 times very fast. Other times I jump front, back, front, ....

It's a nice burst, maybe with some work or getting used to it'll feel less ackward. Especially because it breaks sap making it a singlemob, raid boss, pvp one on one only ability.

Now that I have the patch two add-ons that I feel like I can't live without are not working for me. Energy Watch I had setup in the middle of my screen so I could easily see my energy and combo points without having to look away for even a second. I also used Class Timer so I could add my buffs and target's de-buffs to the screen on either side of my toon. I can't find a replacement for these. I downloaded the latest Class Timer and it generates errors and I just can't configure it to work. Energy Watch seems to track the energy generation appropriately, although the graphic energy tick is hosed, but it does not display my combo points correctly. I tried the GnoffBar and their is too much of a delay in the energy tick to be accurate and it does not show combo points. What are some good addons that I can use to replace:

1. Energy Bar that is accurate
2. Combo Points
3. My Buffs, Debuffs
4. Target's Buff's Debuffs

Has anybody used DiscoDice? It looks cool, but at this point I've had enough frustration for one evening.

For 1. - 3. I'd use Pitbull Unit Frames. They do the "fastupdating" in the latest version.
For 4. NeedToKnow showed very promising in yesterday's ZA-lolfest. Easy to set up and simple, that's how I like my addons.

I've switched from a combat spec to a 51/5/5 mutilate spec and I found myself in a similar position to Leto; I seem to be struggling to keep rupture ticking because I keep having to refresh Snd with Envenom.

Now granted this is partly down to not being familiar with the spec and not having any glyphs - it's also partly because the only raid I could get last night was Kara and nothing lived long enough to establish a firm cycle, but it was still showing to be an issue for me.

As a result of that, I was looking for ways to get the SnD started earlier in my cycle and wondered if anyone has looked into using Overkill-Shiv as an opener to get the initial SnD running with very low energy costs? The current advantage of fast daggers means the cost of shiv during overkill is negligible.

I was also trying to make use of the reduced vanish cooldown to make better use of that 6 seconds of lower energy cost but really wasn't able to ascertain if it's worth it due to Kara being an out and out zerg.

I was also struggling with watching my buffs, I found that on fights like Brut I lost a full stack of HfB as I couldn't keep track of the icon very easily, with the ridiculous amount of buffs that are now present, its easily lost amongst everything - especially with an unfamiliar icon....

I tried using TimerButtons, but that doesn't have HfB encorporated into it, does anyone know a suitable addon that will let you easily track say - SnD, HfB & Rupture for example?

I assume you were running with Hunger for Blood during your test? If yes, the numbers match exactly:

(161+0.1*1339)*1.2*1.09= 385.7292 min
(188+0.1*1339)*1.2*1.09= 421.0452 avg
(215+0.1*1339)*1.2*1.09= 456.3612 max


It has been mentioned numerous times, and I can only repeat it:
NeedToKnow lets you define a bar for any buff you want to observe.

You may also try ClassTimer, which has already pre defined bars for your class.


// Edit
The version on wowinterface.com was obviously broken as in it didn't show correct time values for buffs/debuffs. I changed the link to the one on curse.com, which works just fine.