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Old 11/12/08, 5:00 PM   #4246
jorysaywut
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Mage
 
Windrunner
Originally Posted by path411 View Post
2. HaT is group only not the entire raid. Spreadsheets have always assumed optimal situations. Pre 3.0 for example, group buffs were key for a rogue, a single member dying could lead to a significant decrease in a rogue's DPS. This is the same for HaT...

Also, PS to others: Stop referring to shadow dance in any serious HaT spec. 43-44 points are the most you should ever pick up in Sub if you are serious about raiding as HaT.
While I agree any spec would see a loss of DPS with certain raid members dying, HaT gets hit harder by a party member death because you'd lose a source of combo points along with the raid buff they were providing. I can see the progression spec argument going both ways. In certain scenarios like you being one of the last alive, your DPS would be gimped compared to a typically specced rogue. On the other hand, your defensive CDs may allow you to live longer to finish the boss off. In any case, I think most rogues would agree it's a pleasant surprise that there might be a 3rd option later in raiding.

I've only really seen one mention of Shadow Dance along with HaT and have yet to see anyone specced for it as well. I've only mentioned it in terms of playstyle comparison not actually stating it's a viable use of points. I don't really know what you mean by others.

Hope everyone has fun sleeping 4 hours a day on their way to 80 =P

Last edited by jorysaywut : 11/12/08 at 7:45 PM.

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Old 11/12/08, 5:12 PM   #4247
drumbum
King Hippo
 
Human Rogue
 
Sargeras
Originally Posted by Kjallstrom View Post
A quick addendum to these lookup tables: if you're Alliance, there's a fairly good chance you'll have a Draenei with Heroic Presence in your raid (and as of 3.0.2, this is a single buff from all Draenei classes giving +1% to both melee and spell hit).
Thanks. I've added the information to my original post. I also believe that Heroic Presence is only party-wide, unless someone has evidence to the contrary.

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Old 11/12/08, 11:36 PM   #4248
Vearux
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Blackwing Lair
I don't know where else to ask for this information so I'll start here.

Has anyone ran numbers or done anything theorycrafting for a Mace Combat build and how much dps is generated over or under a Sword Combat build?

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Old 11/13/08, 3:00 AM   #4249
saedo
King Hippo
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Gorgonnash
Originally Posted by Vearux View Post
Has anyone ran numbers or done anything theorycrafting for a Mace Combat build and how much dps is generated over or under a Sword Combat build?
I'm pretty sure spreadsheets handle that. For the most part I believe with equal quality weapons, mace spec still loses.

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Old 11/13/08, 7:57 AM   #4250
robfang
Von Kaiser
 
robfang's Avatar
 
Orc Rogue
 
The Venture Co (EU)
HAT builds

Originally Posted by Mavanas View Post

I still wanna test a few things this week and if someone can help, it will be appreciated. Does HaT proc from dot crits of like a shadow priest (any crit off gcd is great)? Does HaT proc from heroic strike? Does putting a third HaT rogue increase or decrease dps? (can go either way, I think it will actually increase it even more). What's better imp snd or actually ruthlessness. I know someone said who needs an extra combo point when you have a fast inflow of them, but the main thing in this build is to use eviscerate as often as possible and going from s streak of 4pt eviscerate to 5pt eviscerates is sizeable increase in dps.
I am quite interested in the hat builds because of the opportunities it opens for us. One example is that we will be able to spam deadly throw in no-melee fights if we group with hunters. Can you post a WWS report of your fights? That way we can analyse the fights ourselves.

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Old 11/13/08, 4:25 PM   #4251
Arindelest
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Garona
Originally Posted by robfang View Post
I am quite interested in the hat builds because of the opportunities it opens for us. One example is that we will be able to spam deadly throw in no-melee fights if we group with hunters. Can you post a WWS report of your fights? That way we can analyse the fights ourselves.
Your DPS spamming Deadly Throw would still be abysmally low. You would just bring a ranged class.

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Old 11/13/08, 7:03 PM   #4252
MrBlackhat
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Nathrezim
Originally Posted by Arindelest View Post
Your DPS spamming Deadly Throw would still be abysmally low. You would just bring a ranged class.
Deadly Throw spam would be good on fights like the high king during whirl, gargoyles that are not quite low enough in hyjal, striders on vashj while waiting on naga spawns, supremus chase phase, or other similar fights where you cant stay in 100%. Atleast, it would beat doing absolutely nothing waiting to get back on target.

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Old 11/13/08, 8:51 PM   #4253
Synthetic703
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Sisters of Elune
Two questions, with a HaT spec would you want to get daggers for CQC or would swords do more dps?
And some post say that in 25 mans the rogue never has a down time on CP, but HaT works only in group wide, so do the extra CP come from gear or are they getting more CP form critting raid members?

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Old 11/14/08, 1:28 AM   #4254
Ashere
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Khadgar (EU)
Originally Posted by Synthetic703 View Post
Two questions, with a HaT spec would you want to get daggers for CQC or would swords do more dps?
And some post say that in 25 mans the rogue never has a down time on CP, but HaT works only in group wide, so do the extra CP come from gear or are they getting more CP form critting raid members?
1) To get the most out of your poisonprocs, you'd want very fast daggers. To get most out of the occasional hemo you'll be throwing if your group isn't optimal, you'll want another weapon. Preferrably fist weapons, so CQC would still apply. Swords would be behind these two options.
2) The extra CP come from the crits within your 5-men group within the raid, which depends on both the gear they (including you) wear and the buffs they have. Obviously, in a 25-men raid there's a bigger chance to get all the good stuff in buffs than there is in a 10-men raid or a 5-men party.

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Old 11/14/08, 1:01 PM   #4255
Synthetic703
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Sisters of Elune
Originally Posted by Ashere View Post
1) To get the most out of your poisonprocs, you'd want very fast daggers. To get most out of the occasional hemo you'll be throwing if your group isn't optimal, you'll want another weapon. Preferrably fist weapons, so CQC would still apply. Swords would be behind these two options.
2) The extra CP come from the crits within your 5-men group within the raid, which depends on both the gear they (including you) wear and the buffs they have. Obviously, in a 25-men raid there's a bigger chance to get all the good stuff in buffs than there is in a 10-men raid or a 5-men party.
What poisons would be best for that fast of attacks?

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Old 11/14/08, 1:18 PM   #4256
Bryt
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Shu'halo
Originally Posted by Synthetic703 View Post
What poisons would be best for that fast of attacks?
You would still be using wound poison and deadly poison on your weapons.

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