• QControl

It's up on MMO-Champion.

 

Valen

If that's true, the beauty of such a skill, compared to Misdirection, is that you can choose between using it on dps or tank. I see alot of potential with it, if you time it well with different cooldowns in raid, especially since the cooldown is fairly short.


ps. new envenom rank is there.

 

• Aldriana

Yeah, honestly, with rogues having good aggro management, I can see the rogues setting up a Tricks of the Trade rotation on each other - no one gets too far ahead on aggro since you're all using it, and you get a 15% damage boost 20% of the time each.

Random curiosity: what happens if two rogues Tricks of the Trade each other? Who gets the aggro? I wonder if they thought about that at all.

Edit: Also new from mmo-champion, we have 3 new glyphs:

The first is of minimal use in most circumstances, and the third is more fun than actually useful, but I can see the 2nd being useful at times in PvP.

Edit 2:


It's true that there are level 74 and level 79 envenom ranks listed, but they do exactly the same amount of damage as the level 69 version, so we can't really comment on them yet. But it is good to get confirmation that they plan to add them.

 

McFry

As far as Tricks of the Trade goes, I can see rogues using this on each other during AR/BF for some nice extra DPS.

 

◊ Shaker

If it works like Misdirection does, then the person who gives the buff gets a buff as well, so if you're MDing to someone else, you cannot be MD'd to. This would very likely have a similar setup to prevent endless loops.

Consistency. It's only a virtue if you're not a screwup.

 

Stylle

Can TotT be used oneself? I'd like to be able to pool energy before it going off on me and I doubt I can synchronize that with another rogue.

Edit:
Also, does find weakness being passive mean that energy pooling is no longer needed with Mutilate? That'd be a shame as it made mutilate one of the more fun builds to play with. I was really hoping rogue dps would become more interactive and difficult with the expansion.

 

tessarji

While dps using TotT on each other would be fun, this ability would have an incredible effect on threat sensitive fights. 3 rogues rotating this skill would be 60% uptime of a 15% damage buff on the tank plus an entire rogue's worth of threat - this could be as much as 75% more tank TPS in a fight.

I personally think this is too good and the 30s cooldown will not make it live.

While rogues are not known for instant ranged attacks, this skill could still be used for hunter-style pulls to tanks if combined with something like Hand-Mounted Pyro Rockets.

I also think there's a big 'fun factor' associated with this skill, because it would mitigate one of the most annoying things about playing a rogue, which is waiting 5s at the start of every pull to ensure that the tank has gained a small threat lead and a lucky crit backstab won't get you pasted. Using this skill will allow you to jump right in.

 

◊ Shaker

As a note, I just logged into the beta and none of these changes are on the beta realms at this time, so testing will have to wait for another day. :P

Consistency. It's only a virtue if you're not a screwup.

 

PSGarak

They may go the route of "Toolsbearance." I expect it not to stack with Misdirection, and possibly share a Misdirectionbearance effect if they choose to add one.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

adolchristin

Quick question here; I searched through This and the Roguecraft 101 and the Rogue: PvE Discussion thread but wasn't able to find a quick answer to this question so here goes.

From a purely PvE perspective; among the horde races which do you feel is the best in terms of racial abilities?

I was going to go Troll for the 10-30% haste every three minutes is really good since it's percentage based but the 30 energy every 2 minutes Blood Elves gain from Arcane Torrent seems as though it could be good as well.

Thanks for helping a soon to be rogue out!

 

• Feist-Mok

Both of these, as well as a hunters Blood Fury are all excellent Rogue racials. Troll haste probably scales the best.You will still wish you had WoTF on any boss that fears.

 

• Aldriana

Rogue Gear sheet models this. Short answer is this:

On any fight when you can afford to use the orc racial (i.e., the amount of damage you take is low), Orc is best. On any fight where you regularly take damage and thus get more than 10% benefit from the Troll racial, Troll is best. In any fight where you get feared, UD is best. And on any boss that has mana, Blood Elf is best, unless one of these others apply, in which case it is second.

The challenge, of course, is that if you *can't* use the Orc racial, Orc is otherwise weakest. And on any fight where you're *not* getting feared, UD isn't much better. Hence, the way I view it is this: Troll and BE are the "safe" choices - when no one can use their cooldowns, they will do the best. And the Blood Elf racial is more often useful than the Troll one. Hence, currently, I would put the ranking for PvE as Blood Elf >= Troll > Orc > UD.

Also note that this is at 70. We're still working out what happens at 80, so this could change (though I suspect the BE and Troll racials will scale better than the Orc racial).

So, in conclusion: there is no clear "best" option. The different races all have their advantages under different circumstances. You can make a reasonable case for any of them. Also note that the DPS differences we're talking are under the 1% level. Hence, I would say that you should pick whichever one you like best, and call it good.

 

• Vulajin

Something random and interesting I discovered while testing Prey on the Weak is that the troll racial Beast Slaying ability doesn't just grant 5% increased damage on beasts -- it also grants 5% increased critical strike damage on beasts. Similar to what Murder does, in other words.

Needless to say, when the beast boss of Wrath shows its ugly face, I'll be king of the damage meters.

 

Asuah

By the way, Murder Spree is functional on beta now. It does not turn off your white attacks on your target, not sure about multiple targets quite yet.

 

Kaveli

One thing all Horde rogue racials have are great pvp applications. The only one that shines the least in PVP is troll, just due to the fact that if your low enough for troll beserking you're probably close to death.

Orc, Undead, Bloodelf have the best pvp. V.s casters with fear/charm the undead rogue is top. V.s Physical damage with stuns Orc is king.

Orc and Troll have the better pve dps bonuses. With + to beast damage, blood fury, berserk. All boost pve dps.
Undead I'd put in the pve category as well. especially on fights like Archimonde. Stoping the fear is priceless.


In the end really the best one is the one you can sstare at the back of for 6+ hours a night if you're a raider. Cheers!



Back to TotT. This is the first step in a good direction for rogue utility. If threat is any bit an issue we'll make it a non factor with a 30sec timer to boost the tanks threat. It looks like it could be used back and forth for rogues with low threat to get nice dps boosts. All around nice ability. We finally have something to really talk about.

 

• Aldriana

It appears as though leatherworkers are gaining the ability to make fur linings for their bracers, which are significantly more powerful than the regular enchants - the melee one is 120 AP, relative to the 38 AP (or 15 expertise) available from enchants. That ~80 EP benefit would make LW one of the better professions by itself; when you factor in the ability to be your group's drummer, and possibly the leg enchants (although they might be replacing those with the bracer enchants - we'll have to wait and see), LW appears to be a strong candidate for best rogue profession at the moment. Of course, the other professions may yet change, so we'll have to wait and see.

Speaking of other professions, the new cooking recipes are out - looks like our choice will be 40 agi, 40 hit, or 40 expertise, each of which also gives 40 stamina. This continues the trend we saw with gems of stat bonuses at 80 being about twice what they are at 70.

On a related note: we should start putting together a list of blue and purple level 80 rogue gear, for purposes of building up a baseline stat profile for such a character, so we can more easily compare specs with a reasonable idea of what our stat distribution at 80 looks like.

 

saedo

There's also a 280 Armor Pen + 40 Stam according to this pic: http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...oking_8885.jpg. Or is that too low for our use?

 

Kumar

Murder Spree WWS link:
Wow Web Stats

I was surprised the Combat log worked for the current WWS client which is based on 2.4.

I did make a post on the Rogue forums with my observations and conerns:
WoW Forums -> Murder Spree - Observations, Concerns

Anybody have a WoTLK combat parser?

 

CoroHD

It's right in line with the gems (epic level expertise = 20, epic level armpen = 140, food buffs are double of both), it depends on how much boss armor there is in wotlk and whether or not they implement a armor pen rating to prevent it scaling to well.

 

impossible!

A lot of people here, on the beta forums and elsewhere saying Hunger for Blood losing its Magic component being a loss of potential. I'll admit it reduces its primary appeal in PvP by granting Assassination some much needed mobility. But has anyone bothered to evaluate its PvE use alongside Cut to the Chase? Does CttC using any Envenom or Eviscerate hit result in the Energy investment in Hunger for Blood being worthwhile?

 

• Aldriana

Nah, it's in the same ballpark of power - I just forgot to mention it. It may turn out to be weaker or stronger, but, again, we'll need actual talents and character stats before we can start putting together EP values for level 80.

Edit: Oh, also: does anyone know if there's a listing somewhere of which of our glyphs are major, minor, and lesser? And if not, could one of you beta folks put such a list together?

 

Tarquin

I think a more important factor would be Find Weakness moving to a passive talent, giving Mutilate cycles much more flexibility. It's a little early to tell but I think keeping a straight Rupture cycle and using Evisc as a freebie S&D refresh will give Muti rogues leeway to spend that 30 energy every 10 seconds.

As far as PVP goes, while I'm certainly bummed about the removal of magic, we're overlooking that it'll now be a no-cooldown Hamstring breaker, something which I think no other class has. Between that and the viability of Envenom we could be looking at Muti rogues as the warrior-killers.

"Aggro" (n): in the Ancient Lordaeranian, a battle cry roughly translating to "Victory and death!"

 

kindath

What's the expertise cap for level 80? I'm wondering how much food + gems we'll need to allocate to that.

Always expertise capped... <3x100000

 

• Rerox

If the percentage values stay the same for level 80 as they are now for level 70 the expertise cap should be at roughly 217 expertise rating, if I didn't miscalculate.
As far as I know at 80 it takes 8,36 expertise rating for 1 expertise and thus 32,78 expertise rating for -1% dodge/parry.

 

Hildegard

I agree with what you say regarding Mutilate being very strong against other melees. Also the fact that all stun resistance is changed to "reduced duration" (what about the orc racial ?) will help Mutilate quite a lot. Fighting frost mages or dwarven hunters will be hell on the other side. We need Deathknights !

Hildegard Sprigglespruxx - Wissenschaftlerin am Institut für Pfuschkunde

http://forscherliga.wikia.com/wiki/Hildegard