The Roguecraft Spreadsheet - Page 106

Zodar · 04/02/09, 6:18 PM

Originally Posted by saedo

One minor thing I just noticed, the Shoulderpads of the Monolith is missing the yellow socket in it.

You obviously haven't upgraded to the 0.5.0 version. Great work, Vulajin! =]

Whistles · 04/02/09, 9:04 PM

[Enchanted Tear] should probably be in the SS as the highest EP blue gem available. 6AGI+6STR beats out 8AGI as far as useful stats on a blue gem goes and it meets your entire meta requirement in one gem for us non-JCs.

Also it seems that Heroic Presence (Alliance Draenei buff) isn't being properly applied to spell hit. Near the poison cap (including Misery) I'm getting more DPS out of 32 hit from gems than out of the buff when they should be about the same.

Neto- · 04/02/09, 9:06 PM

That's because it's 1% physical hit, not spell hit.

There are two versions of Heroic Presence; one for spell hit and other for physical hit.

ShadowEric · 04/02/09, 9:08 PM

Originally Posted by Neto-

That's because it's 1% physical hit, not spell hit.

There are two versions of Heroic Presence; one for spell hit and other for physical hit.

That is no longer the case since 3.0 when hit chance was combined to affect both spells and physical damage.

Alexsiss · 04/02/09, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Whistles

[Enchanted Tear] should probably be in the SS as the highest EP blue gem available. 6AGI+6STR beats out 8AGI as far as useful stats on a blue gem goes and it meets your entire meta requirement in one gem for us non-JCs.

Also it seems that Heroic Presence (Alliance Draenei buff) isn't being properly applied to spell hit. Near the poison cap (including Misery) I'm getting more DPS out of 32 hit from gems than out of the buff when they should be about the same.

The reason for this is very likely the fact that 32 hit rating != 1% melee hit + 1% spell hit. You actually get more spell hit as it converts at a number lower that I don't know off the top of my head

Edit: Wowwiki is my freind!
Melee Hit 1% hit chance 32.79
Spell Hit 1% spell hit chance 26.23

Whistles · 04/03/09, 3:02 AM

Originally Posted by Alexsiss

The reason for this is very likely the fact that 32 hit rating != 1% melee hit + 1% spell hit. You actually get more spell hit as it converts at a number lower that I don't know off the top of my head

Edit: Wowwiki is my freind!
Melee Hit 1% hit chance 32.79
Spell Hit 1% spell hit chance 26.23

This is something I had neglected but going back and doing my test again shows that it doesn't matter. With Misery and Heroic Presence the spell hit cap is 210 hit rating.

I set up a gear list that put me just above the poison cap (215 hit rating). I enable Heroic Presence and Misery in the spreadsheet. I record a DPS of 4704.72. I disable Heroic Presence and gem for 32 hit rating (247 hit rating) and record a DPS value of 4710.74. Slight difference but there is one. Gemming for 33 hit rating instead to be closer to 32.79 bumps it up to 4711.61.

In both setups poisons should be capped and overall hit percentage is the same (it records 12.56% in the "Hit (S. Cap)" box). That there is a difference in DPS implies to me that something about how Heroic Presence is being applied to poisons is off a bit but I haven't been able to pinpoint where. Thinking about it it could also be present in Misery. If Misery were giving less than expected spell hit the Heroic Presence setup would be farther away from the cap than the 33 hit scenario.

Rilias · 04/03/09, 4:52 AM

It could also be precision for arguments sake.

I do actually lose 1DPS by removing Heroic Presence and adding 33Hitrating in the DPS-Sheet. Somewhat surprising.

xcyteZ · 04/03/09, 2:31 PM

I've been following the itemization from your spreadsheet and using the cycle of 4r/4e min with 5r/4e max and I can't seem to get above 4.7-4.8K DPS. Could it be that my rotation is not smooth? I find myself getting energy capped with still a healthy duration of Rupture and Slice & Dice still up and I usually do 2-3 Envenoms before I'm forced to refresh my Rupture. My stats are as follows with the WD/SR as my weapons setup and IP/DP as my poisons.

3.6K AP
372 Hit
21/21 [5.25%] Expertise
35% Crit

My guild is also usually running with a good amount of melee buffs. Could it possibly be the fact that I'm not expertise capped that is only allowing me to yield this small amount of dps? Yes there are alot of variables in answering this question such as the buffs that are present, however, I just feel that generally speaking I should be doing 5K if not more with the gear setup I am using currently with "raid buffs". I'm only missing 4 pieces [Cape, Neck, Boots, 2nd Trinket] that are Best in Slot.

Link to my Armory: The World of Warcraft Armory

Ticia · 04/03/09, 3:22 PM

Originally Posted by xcyteZ

Could it possibly be the fact that I'm not expertise capped that is only allowing me to yield this small amount of dps?

No. The expertise cap isn't some magic number that gives you 200+ dps when you hit it or lowers your dps by the same amount if you aren't at it. You've currently got 5.25% dodge reduction from expertise, so your moves get dodged ~1.25%. This will reduce your dps by ~1.25% (oversimplifying, but it's in the same order of magnitude) over what it would be if you had the extra 5 expertise (without dropping other stats, obviously). Since you say you are doing about 4800 DPS, that would be about 60 DPS.

Of course, if you were to try to get expertise capped, you would have to give up other stats in order to get that Expertise (most likely by regemming), so the actual gain would be less than that.

Bonesaw · 04/03/09, 5:55 PM

I've read through all the pages of this post at one point but I do not remember whether or not anyone addressed the issue I just noticed. When I download the spreadsheet and only change the OH poison from deadly to instant the dps goes up a lot (5223.59 --> 5607.43). I assume this is a bug since it is set to use envenom and obviously the dps should go down.

Mavanas · 04/03/09, 6:41 PM

Bonesaw,

Most likely, envenom damage is calculated without checking if deadly poison is used. It's something that you have to doublecheck on your own.

Bonesaw · 04/03/09, 7:11 PM

But I thought that IDN is supposed to beat out IIV on live?

(BTW I kept everything else in the spreadsheet the same so its using 2xWD)

FWk · 04/03/09, 10:36 PM

I've made a number of significant improvements to the spreadsheet and a new version is available for download.

-Redid armor/armor penetration calculations for 3.1 according to the math done by the posters on the Combat Ratings thread and in particular Rallik's armor penetration formula found here:
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t29453-c...6/#post1170842
The armor calculations are no longer using Vulajin's original tables in DPSCalc2. I created a new sheet named ArmPen that has all the work. There's a bug on the PTR the reduces armor penetration effects (Mace spec/arpen rating, not sunder/expose) by 19% (dividing by 1.25) I included the option to ignore or enable this in ArmPen.B1.

One thing I'm not quite sure about is at which point of the calculation Serrated Blades comes in, as the last remaining ability that reduces armor by a set amount. I'm going to do some tests on the PTR and figure it out. Currently I assumed that the 640 armor pen from SB is subtracted from boss armor first, before percentage effects, and not last. Being subtracted first means SB is weaker, and vice versa.

-Changed Mutilate energy gain to account for less HfB cost over time in Cycles.B1, Cycles1.B1, Cycles2.B1. About a 150 dps increase for Mutilate specs.

-Implemented Ulduar trinkets Wrathstone and Pyrite Infuser.

-Fixed a couple of minor item errors. While I'm on the subject, I included all the new items from ptr.wowhead.com. I've been made aware that there's other rogue loot that hasn't been uploaded to Wowhead, however, I'm not going to include it at this point.

If you encounter minor errors please PM me. Thanks for the criticisms so far.

Combat: http://rapidshare.com/files/21716485...duar_0.4.7.xls

Mutilate: http://rapidshare.com/files/21716486...duar_0.4.7.xls

xcyteZ · 04/03/09, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by Ticia

No. The expertise cap isn't some magic number that gives you 200+ dps when you hit it or lowers your dps by the same amount if you aren't at it. You've currently got 5.25% dodge reduction from expertise, so your moves get dodged ~1.25%. This will reduce your dps by ~1.25% (oversimplifying, but it's in the same order of magnitude) over what it would be if you had the extra 5 expertise (without dropping other stats, obviously). Since you say you are doing about 4800 DPS, that would be about 60 DPS.

Of course, if you were to try to get expertise capped, you would have to give up other stats in order to get that Expertise (most likely by regemming), so the actual gain would be less than that.

Seems upon further inspection, 4.8K dps with the exact buffs I had during the time I record this is accurate. Thank you for the clarification though. Also for Vulajin, on the buffs sheet, there is "Improved Icy Touch / Windfury Totem" which should be changed to "Improved Icy Talons."

Grunge · 04/04/09, 5:24 PM

Originally Posted by Bonesaw

But I thought that IDN is supposed to beat out IIV on live?

With BiS this is not the case, at least according to the sheet (and my own experiences with IIV support it as well).