The Roguecraft Spreadsheet - Page 109

jest788 · 04/15/09, 12:03 PM

Just from filling out the spreadsheet on my own gear and talent trees, It shows 18/51/2 with a rotation of 5s/5r/5e, KS, Rupt and SS Glyphs with a DPS of 6287.55.

With a 15/51/5 spec, Rupt, KS anbd SS Glyph a rotation of 4s/5r/5e as being 6244.46 DPS.

This is with Wound MH and Deadly OH.

Lyphe · 04/15/09, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Xaoc

A standard 15/51/5 build will scale better in a raid (obviously) because there will be sunders. 18/51/2 deals a lot more magic damage that will obviously skew results on a training dummy. There is also the fact that you didnt mention how long your tests were, which will also skew results; a shorter fight is far more subject to RNG than a longer one.

Didn't realize I'd forgotten to mention duration of test - it was 10 minutes for both. It's also worth mentioning that I found my rotation to be a lot more stable with the 18/51/2 build ... although that could be because I'm just more used to it since I'm coming off an 18/51/2 shiv build in 3.09.

• Maestroquark · 04/15/09, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Lyphe

Didn't realize I'd forgotten to mention duration of test - it was 10 minutes for both. It's also worth mentioning that I found my rotation to be a lot more stable with the 18/51/2 build ... although that could be because I'm just more used to it since I'm coming off an 18/51/2 shiv build in 3.09.

It's still not relevant, unless you can accurately predict how much of a dps increase each spec would pull by having all raid buffs.

FWk · 04/15/09, 2:45 PM

Please don't post results of your testing on dummies. It's irrelevant for the purposes of extrapolating to raid DPS. Furthermore everyone's DPS will vary between specs due to gear differences so nobody cares what spec gives you the best results.

This is the spreadsheet thread, so let's discuss the spreadsheet we have to work with.
While we wait for Vulajin here's his spreadsheet updated for 3.1 (this isn't a new version, just combining the links). Thanks to Gogge for the Excel-friendly conversion. I downloaded his Combat sheet and manually changed it to Mutilate spec and uploaded that as well. Let me know if it doesn't work with Excel because I used OO3.0 as before.

OpenOffice 3.0 Users

Combat: http://rapidshare.com/files/21716485...duar_0.4.7.xls

Mutilate: http://rapidshare.com/files/21716486...duar_0.4.7.xls

Excel Users

Combat: http://gogge.se/LC_v0.5_Combat_Ulduar_0.4.7_excel.xls

Mutilate: http://rapidshare.com/files/22173795....4.7_excel.xls

Kitteh · 04/15/09, 3:07 PM

Originally Posted by jest788

Just from filling out the spreadsheet on my own gear and talent trees, It shows 18/51/2 with a rotation of 5s/5r/5e, KS, Rupt and SS Glyphs with a DPS of 6287.55.

With a 15/51/5 spec, Rupt, KS anbd SS Glyph a rotation of 4s/5r/5e as being 6244.46 DPS.

This is with Wound MH and Deadly OH.

Mine also seems to give me best returns on the full, full cycle. The Killing Spree glyph i'd also spotted. I'm not sure how many bosses are stable and stationary enough to KS on every cooldown tho.

I haven't seen this modelled too well anywhere. The simulator sheet tends to be rather complex to setup a cycle exactly how you want. With the added haste and not many other changes i'm having trouble guessing what's causing the change?

jorysaywut · 04/15/09, 3:49 PM

I seem to get around 1.72 EP for Armor Pen rating as Mut with these sheets. I realize it got a buff of 25% but my pre-patch value was around 1.14 EP which doesn't add up. I'm using sp00n's addon to find the ep values btw. Maybe all my numbers are just off but I'm curious as to how you implementing the arpen changes into your modified sheet.

FWk · 04/15/09, 4:31 PM

For armor penetration calculations I used this post by Rallik in the Combat Ratings thread which is ballpark accurate according to the thorough tests in that thread, as mentioned in my older post. ArmPen effects are applied very differently now, and together with other factors such as more haste, the higher EP value doesn't surprise me.

Rupp · 04/15/09, 4:45 PM

Originally Posted by FWk

Excel Users

Combat: http://gogge.se/LC_v0.5_Combat_Ulduar_0.4.7_excel.xls

Mutilate: RapidShare: Easy Filehosting

Stupid question: But why have 2 different spreadsheets for each spec? The original allowed for modifying your talents so you could test out different specs with the same sheet.

jorysaywut · 04/15/09, 5:55 PM

There's a pretty big disparity between your values and Aldriana's, which is why I'm curious. Thanks for the information though.

Feist-Mok · 04/15/09, 6:11 PM

edited out for innacuracy. Go ahead and delete.

Gogge · 04/15/09, 8:48 PM

Originally Posted by wkd

can someone re-up the mutilate fixed excel spreadsheet, thanks

Savefile: LC_v0.5_Mutilate_Ulduar_0.4.7_excel.xls I missed rapid share limit being 10 sheets. Aldriana used savefile and their page says there's unlimited downloads so lets hope that one works better.

Aikuchi · 04/16/09, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by FWk

For armor penetration calculations I used this post by Rallik in the Combat Ratings thread which is ballpark accurate according to the thorough tests in that thread, as mentioned in my older post. ArmPen effects are applied very differently now, and together with other factors such as more haste, the higher EP value doesn't surprise me.

I am currently using LC_v0.5_Combat_Ulduar_0.4.7_excel.xls. Using the 18/51/2 talent build.

I swapped out all my AP (Bright) red gems for ArPen (Fractured) red gems, and got a 0.57% increase in total dps.

Has anyone else seen this increase? I was under the impression that AGI or AP gems were the only good choices. Is this an error in the spreadsheet, or was the recent buff to ArPen really that significant?

testor · 04/16/09, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Aikuchi

I am currently using LC_v0.5_Combat_Ulduar_0.4.7_excel.xls. Using the 18/51/2 talent build.

I swapped out all my AP (Bright) red gems for ArPen (Fractured) red gems, and got a 0.57% increase in total dps.

Has anyone else seen this increase? I was under the impression that AGI or AP gems were the only good choices. Is this an error in the spreadsheet, or was the recent buff to ArPen really that significant?

Armor Penetration seems to be a cumulative effect being worth more and more as you stack it, at least according to the spreadsheets. But that seems rather logical, since armor is worth less in mitigation as you stack it, taking it away is worth more in damage.

It looks to me as if Agility and Arp start at about 2ep and 2.1ep, respectively, adding more Arp raises that from 2.1 - 2.4...
Making Arp the most valuable stat.

Now this of course depends on your talent build (HAT, Combat, Mutilate) and current Arp. I would say each person needs to model it for themselves.

Visciv · 04/16/09, 2:12 PM

Far be it for me to question the holy spreadsheets (which I don't know if I could live without by the way), but are we sure that the trade-offs between gemming for Armor Pen versus some sort of gem that affects our Poisons and Bleed are worth it. I know the spreadsheets are generally a good guideline but I want to be cautious about swapping from AP/AGI to Pen due to the fact that Pen only affects White hits and Yellows (not poisons or bleeds).

It's still better?

Aikuchi · 04/16/09, 2:26 PM

Originally Posted by Visciv

Far be it for me to question the holy spreadsheets (which I don't know if I could live without by the way), but are we sure that the trade-offs between gemming for Armor Pen versus some sort of gem that affects our Poisons and Bleed are worth it. I know the spreadsheets are generally a good guideline but I want to be cautious about swapping from AP/AGI to Pen due to the fact that Pen only affects White hits and Yellows (not poisons or bleeds).

It's still better?

That's basically where I was going with my post. I was under the impression that it was standard practice to only use AGI/AP gems.

As an aside, I only have 94 ArPen rating from gear/talents. (Gemmed for AP)

I have not actually changed any of my gems on live, I was just surprised that ArPen gems were out performing AP (which was slightly better than AGI in my case.)