I have these buffs:
Maybe i can do a 3rd try with less buffs.
Ok, i compared both skills (Combat vs. Mutilate) without any buff.
On Demon-Bosses Combat is 7% ahead and 0,6% on Level 72 Humanoid mobs.
It really seems to be the Murder-Talent.
Thanks for the hint.
Vulajin, when trying to determine stat weightings using the BC 0.4.1 sheet I've encountered similar problems as Lokar and OengusSC reported and did some investigations.
Sheet settings are standard with the following changes: Brutal slicer in main hand; 5/5 Sword Spec; SS, hemo and snd glyph (since rupture isn't available at level 70); yeilding a total of 3409.08 DPS.
In the tab "Gear" I manually changed the gem stats by deleting the formula on cell "D45" for example, replaced it with a "0" and increased agility by steps of 1. We would have expected a rather static DPS gain by incrementing agility, but this wasn't the case and I believe that's the reason for the discrepancies that occured when it comes down to comparing gems and stats. In fact, my results were:
- Every point of agility yeilded 1.25 or 1.26 DPS (due to rounding I guess). So far so good, but:
- Every 6th - 7th point of agility yeilded 1.86 or 1.87 DPS instead.
- Every 10th point of agility yeilded 2.49 or 2.50 DPS.
Do you have an idea about this odd behaviour? What's the correct agi weighting then? An average value, which would be around 1.50 DPS?
/edit: Ok, I think I've found out why. BoK and Savage Combat add a percentage to our total AP, resulting in a decimal number. This number is converted to an integer for further calculations using the function "floor" which just cuts the decimals off. Hence it obviously results in a bigger step every few AP (and agi), so I increased each stat by 50 and calculated the average DPS gain for 1 point in order to get my weightings.
Haste Rating is trivial to adjust for, assuming we know much there is. It's only haste procs that cause a problem.
Ok, here's a test with Webbed Death and 345 haste rating (1.27 attack speed according to character sheet).
Swing Attempts: 2000
Landed: 1905
Crits: 644 (32.2%...should've been 35.60% according to character sheet but guess I got unlucky)
Berserking Procs: 36 (1.89%)
Mirror of Truth Procs: 31 (1.67%)
Bandit Insignia Procs: 49 (~2.57%)
So first my Berserking Procs seemed lower than 1.2 PPM when I did my quick math, but I'm not sure whether 1.2 PPM is within the margin of error from a statistical analysis point of view.
For Mirror of Truth, we can rule out a 60s cooldown because there are multiple instances where it procs more quickly than that. The first two in the log for instance, procs at 9:01:21, fades at 9:01:31, procs again at 9:02:12. That probably means it's a 45s cooldown then.
Bandit's Insignia is almost definitely a 45s cooldown, based on every test I've ran. With Dual Wielding and with all your haste buffs I think you can assume it will proc every 50s at the worst.
So, first, my script is only counting 1897 instances of SWING_DAMAGE - I'm not sure why I'm getting a different number than you. Regardless, in terms of the rest of the analysis:
36 Berserking Procs in 1897 swings means that the actual proc rate is 95% likely to be between 1.3% and 2.5%, or .61 and 1.19 PPM. This does seem to make it a bit less likely that the true proc rate is 1.2 PPM... but it's not conclusive. At some point we're going to need to put together some good 4-6 hour parses like we did for Mongoose/Executioner to nail this one down. Recommended methodology: leave yourself attacking the target dummy overnight. Your weapon will probably break at some point, but that's easy enough to detect in the log and accounted for.
Bandit Insignia: Well, I count 7 proc spacings between 45 and 46 seconds and none less than 45, so I'm comfortable saying it's a 45 second cooldown. If we remove swings that occur during the cooldown period, we get 49 procs in 251 eligible attacks, which works out to a proc rate that is 95% likely to be between 14.6% and 24.4%. So the 15% proc rate quoted on wowhead seems plausible.
Mirror of Truth: The shortest proc spacings here are 51.5, 52.3, 52.7 seconds, with everything else being 55 seconds or more; this really isn't very conclusive. It might be 45 seconds, but it also could be 50. However, given that wowhead quotes a 10% proc rate, and Tsunami Talisman and Hourglass were both 45 second cooldown/10% proc rate in TBC, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume they might have done the same thing here. But we certainly can't say conclusively one way or the other based on this log.
I can get you a longer combat log, but I am sure my dagger will break. Stopping the combat log to go repair my weapon and starting it again after I am back at the dummy is ok right?
Proc Trinkets
All green trinkets and the epic badge caster trinket have a 45s cooldown.
This would suggest that for any proc trinket we should assume a 45s cooldown unless it absolutely doesn't look like it.
I can get you a longer combat log, but I am sure my dagger will break. Stopping the combat log to go repair my weapon and starting it again after I am back at the dummy is ok right?
As long as you're using the same weapon and the same gear (and don't go hitting anything else in between), breaks in the log are fine.
I don't know how fast the new weapons will break relative to the ones I was testing with in TBC, but when I was doing the Mongoose testing I recall it taking about 4 hours before my weapon broke, which would be up around 10000 swings with a 1.4 speed weapon. Even one such parse would help a fair amount, though to get reasonable accuracy it might take 2 or 3. And, for that matter, more is always better.
Also, it might be worth testing with a slower weapon at some point, just to make sure it's a PPM. We don't need huge tests for all speeds, but it would be at least worth doing an hour or two just to make sure we're on the right track.
Well on the 1:45 minute log my dagger went from 65/65 to 9/65 so I am thinking I can get 2.5 hours out of it before it breaks. Just tell me how long a log you want might take me a couple sessions but I can get it. About the slower weapon I will try to farm the mats to make another enchant, but getting 10 abyss shards is very time consuming sense i have to make epic FR gear and DE it to get the Abyss Shards. So, it might take me a week or so to get a slower weapon enchanted.
Well, first off, I'm not necessarily expecting you to do all the testing - I'm just saying that sooner or later, it would be good if someone could.
With regards to number of swings; well, as always, more is better; but as an initial baseline, it would be nice to get the proc rate to within plus or minus .1 PPM; with a 1.4 speed weapon, this would be 19k swings. Again, not expecting anyone in particular to do all that, but the closer we can get, the better.
Ok, ran a test tonight. Sadly my weapon lasted only 2 hours and 10 minutes before it broke. So that'll make running prolonged tests a bit more difficult. Good news though is I figured out how to (sort of) get Stasis to work with the training dummies, so I can post its analysis as well.
My dagger broke 2 times in the process. once about 4 hours in I think and the other at the very end because I went to bed and just left it running. My daggers lasted about as long as Chalon's did 2hours or so. and On a kinda funny note My log also capture Chalon doing his tests in IF.
Chalon: Am I correct in assuming that that's with the same gear as the previous test (i.e., Webbed Death and 345 haste rating?) If so, we can combine the data of the two sets for greater accuracy. Regardless, viewing them independently:
104 Berserk procs in 5955 swings makes for a proc rate between 1.92% and 2.68%; with the aforementioned assumptions (Webbed Death, 345 haste), this would put the proc rate between .91 and 1.27 PPM.
Bandit's Insignia: Minimum proc separation is down to 44.843 seconds, which is still fine for a 45 second cooldown; under that assumption, we have 151 procs in 778 eligible attacks, or a proc rate between 16.6% and 22.2%. Combining this with the data from the last parse, we get up to 200 procs in 1029 attacks, which narrows the range to 17% to 21.8%. On the whole, I'm thinking 20% looks more likely than 15%.
Mirror: well, we have procs after 50.6, 51.7, and 51.9 seconds, but nothing under 50, so I'm starting to lean towards a 50 second internal cooldown.
Amerilina: I can't open that Zip file - my computer thinks it's corrupt. Can you try rezipping it and posting it again? Thanks.
Koaschten: Again, minimum proc spacing is 50.197, and there are 4 between 50 and 51, so I think we can safely say that it's a 50 second internal cooldown. I'll have to write some additional parsing to pin down the proc rate, but I think we're pretty solid about the cooldown.
I was changing around some of the hit, crit, haste and agility stats and from what I can see it hit now has the least weight of all 4 of these. I think someone mentioned the same problem in a previous post, they replaced 10 hit gems with 5hit/5agil gems and their dps went up. If you are not hit capped, isn't this wrong? Is there a bug in the sheet or is this due to changes of 3.0?
Changes of 3.0. With the change to WF, hit worth goes down. Then there's all the poison scaling, more energy regen, and buffs to yellow attacks which drives AP/agi up more.
Hey there,
i'm desperately trying to put messenger of fate or fang of kalecgos in to MH, in Current 3.0 PTR version: 0.4.1 BC (10/01/08). Seems like i can't even select any of them in MH line. Why is that? Possibly im missing something and FAIL completely, and i appologise for that, but an explanation would sooth my mind.
Thanks.
Because they are not present in the MH sheet.
Do add them, unhide both the MH weapon and OH weapon sheet (format/sheet/unhide - if that's a somewhat decent translation from my German Excel), add a line to the MH sheet where you want to copy the weapon to (preferably on its alphabetical position), go to the OH sheet, select the whole line where that weapon is, and copy it over to the MH sheet.
Then you can select it from the drop down list in the gear sheet.
Vulajin, when trying to determine stat weightings using the BC 0.4.1 sheet I've encountered similar problems as Lokar and OengusSC reported and did some investigations.
Sheet settings are standard with the following changes: Brutal slicer in main hand; 5/5 Sword Spec; SS, hemo and snd glyph (since rupture isn't available at level 70); yeilding a total of 3409.08 DPS.
In the tab "Gear" I manually changed the gem stats by deleting the formula on cell "D45" for example, replaced it with a "0" and increased agility by steps of 1. We would have expected a rather static DPS gain by incrementing agility, but this wasn't the case and I believe that's the reason for the discrepancies that occured when it comes down to comparing gems and stats. In fact, my results were:
- Every point of agility yeilded 1.25 or 1.26 DPS (due to rounding I guess). So far so good, but:
- Every 6th - 7th point of agility yeilded 1.86 or 1.87 DPS instead.
- Every 10th point of agility yeilded 2.49 or 2.50 DPS.
Do you have an idea about this odd behaviour? What's the correct agi weighting then? An average value, which would be around 1.50 DPS?
/edit: Ok, I think I've found out why. BoK and Savage Combat add a percentage to our total AP, resulting in a decimal number. This number is converted to an integer for further calculations using the function "floor" which just cuts the decimals off. Hence it obviously results in a bigger step every few AP (and agi), so I increased each stat by 50 and calculated the average DPS gain for 1 point in order to get my weightings.
I've noticed the same thing. Is this floor function able to be fixed to not cut off decimals?
A floor function, by definition, cuts off decimals. The floor function is used to mimic the exact stat formulas used by the game. The easy solution if you want to add a fixed amount of agility/strength/whatever without it getting fucked up is to simply add "+1" or whatever to the agility/strength/whatever formulas on each of "DPS Calc 1," "DPS Calc 2," "DPS Calc 3," and "DPS."
As I said in the first post of this thread, the sheet really isn't equipped or designed to provide EP weights. I'll consider implementing some sort of mechanism by which I can calculate them easily, but there's not really planning to make any obvious or intuitive way for users to do it, because the sheet just isn't built in such a way as to calculate them.
10/08/08, 5:46 AM
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