The Roguecraft Spreadsheet - Page 23

evolart · 12/02/08, 5:46 PM

Originally Posted by Rosethorn

The link to my new version of Vul's Spreadsheet is given below

Rogue_DPS_Cherubael_0.4.1.xls - FileFront.com

All credit goes to him for its creation. Mine differs only in these ways:

- You can Save/Load/Delete Gear Sets.
- I added a totals bar at the top of the gear page so you can see how much of each stat you have.
- I fixed an error on the gear page (A72) which does not correctly account for the belt enchant.
- Boss armor values are now correctly set to 13083

I am planning on updating mine as his updates and if people are interested I will continue to link through the latest version.

Awesome! Glad you are making changes like these...maybe you and Vul should collab on this stuff so there is only one sheet. I've been hoping some of this type of stuff would be put in even though Vulajin doesn't feel it is necessary and probably a lot of extra work. I know I'm just lazy...**crosses fingers for armory import someday*

saedo · 12/02/08, 5:54 PM

Originally Posted by evolart

Awesome! Glad you are making changes like these...maybe you and Vul should collab on this stuff so there is only one sheet. I've been hoping some of this type of stuff would be put in even though Vulajin doesn't feel it is necessary and probably a lot of extra work. I know I'm just lazy...**crosses fingers for armory import someday*

That stuff won't work in OpenOffice so doubt it'll happen

Rambaral · 12/02/08, 6:17 PM

Originally Posted by Pinch

Not on the spreadsheet: Mark of Norgannon and Darkmoon Card: Greatness

I would greatly appreciate if these were modeled!

Good luck on that. Trinkets are inherently the most difficult pieces of gear to model. Several different sources have trinkets all over the place in comparison to others. Only averages of procs/uses over time vs cooldowns (hidden and otherwise) can determine their weight, and that will take some time to gather.

So far those two are considered by most to be the top trinkets, but spec also comes into play on their effectiveness.

Arindelest · 12/02/08, 8:32 PM

Mark of Norgannon would average out to 81.83 haste and 69 Expertise. If I use the default EP values on the previous page, it comes out to 173, which is pretty terrible. Granted, that can be improved by stacking with other procs, but it still is not a very good trinket.

chalon · 12/02/08, 8:37 PM

Yeah, [Mark of Norgannon] is pretty awful. Even if you wanted the Expertise, there are much better ways to get it.

Basically, your trinkets should be:
1. [Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
2. [Mirror of Truth] OR [Fury of the Five Flights]. They are very close to each other, but the current thinking is that Mirror of Truth is slightly better for Mutilate, and Fury is slightly better for Combat.

evolart · 12/02/08, 9:36 PM

**posted to wrong thread**

Lycade · 12/03/08, 12:47 AM

A minor suggestion, Vul. Would it be possible if you could alter the drop down menus so that they gave more information on the items?

For instance, put a (D) in front of daggers, (F) in front of fists, and the like, to make it easier for the end user to scroll through items?

The same could be done for gems, putting an initial for their color.

All and all, good work. Now to motivate myself one day to look through the math...

edit - Master Poisoner doesn't seem to increase or decrease dps.

• Almehym · 12/03/08, 1:46 AM

I haven't looked at the sheet for a while Lycade, but shouldn't there be a buff sheet that includes the buff given by Totem of Wrath/Master Poisoner/Heart of the Crusader (or whatever it is)? In that case, the talents themselves for MP wouldn't increase your dps at all if you already had the effect of one of the other debuffs on your target.

If you meant that the 3% crit isn't applying from the buff sheet, though, then ignore this post.

Wymsprocket · 12/03/08, 5:56 AM

If you enable Critical Strike Chance on the buff sheet it does increase DPS. Same as enabling the 2% physical damage buff adds the 2% part of Savage Combat. At least I'm assuming that's what happens since adding points in that talent adds some dps and adding the buff adds some more. Having the buff you can provide set to true automatically would be convenient but it's not really hard work to remember to do it manually.

Arogue · 12/03/08, 8:36 AM

Some Subtlety Talents are behaving strangely.

Honor Among Thieves doesn't improve your dps.
Shadowstep and Filthy Tricks reduces your dps

The Speed of Silent Crusader is wrong.

chalon · 12/03/08, 1:57 PM

Deep subtlety talents are for the most part not implemented by the sheet.

• Vulajin · 12/03/08, 3:47 PM

Filthy Tricks should reduce your DPS, because it causes you to use Tricks of the Trade more often.

x1tiger1x · 12/03/08, 6:08 PM

I'm actually surprised Sinister Revenge is a better OH than Webbed Death. I would have though dual Webbed Deaths would be the optimal mutilate build.

It seems from plugging my gear and talents into the spreadsheet that Webbed Death MH and Sinister Revenge OH is the best mutilate combo I can come up with; has anyone had similar results?

saedo · 12/03/08, 6:18 PM

Originally Posted by x1tiger1x

I'm actually surprised Sinister Revenge is a better OH than Webbed Death. I would have though dual Webbed Deaths would be the optimal mutilate build.

It seems from plugging my gear and talents into the spreadsheet that Webbed Death MH and Sinister Revenge OH is the best mutilate combo I can come up with; has anyone had similar results?

Yes, and it's only slightly better for me, 6 dps. So in this case the slightly better mutilate/white damage offsets extra energy procs, and deadly poison uptimes.

chalon · 12/03/08, 6:19 PM

Yes, that's the best weapon combo. For the weapon with Deadly Poison, the speed doesn't matter nearly as much as the overall DPS/stats. Yes, a faster weapon results in more FA procs, but that by itself isn't enough to make Webbed Death better than Sinister Revenge for that purpose.

Furthermore, if you take into account the Mutilate 2x OH proc bug, it's actually better to go MH Sinister Revenge (DP) and OH Webbed Death (IP).

x1tiger1x · 12/03/08, 6:29 PM

Originally Posted by chalon

Yes, that's the best weapon combo. For the weapon with Deadly Poison, the speed doesn't matter nearly as much as the overall DPS/stats. Yes, a faster weapon results in more FA procs, but that by itself isn't enough to make Webbed Death better than Sinister Revenge for that purpose.

Furthermore, if you take into account the Mutilate 2x OH proc bug, it's actually better to go MH Sinister Revenge (DP) and OH Webbed Death (IP).

I've been MHing Sinister Revenge (DP) and OHing my Omen of ruin (now Murder) (IP) for that reason as well. When (if) the bug gets fixed I will swap Murder (IP) to MH and Sinister Revenge (DP) to OH.

Barac · 12/03/08, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by Rosethorn

The link to my new version of Vul's Spreadsheet is given below

Rogue_DPS_Cherubael_0.4.1.xls - FileFront.com

All credit goes to him for its creation. Mine differs only in these ways:

- You can Save/Load/Delete Gear Sets.
- I added a totals bar at the top of the gear page so you can see how much of each stat you have.
- I fixed an error on the gear page (A72) which does not correctly account for the belt enchant.
- Boss armor values are now correctly set to 13083

I am planning on updating mine as his updates and if people are interested I will continue to link through the latest version.

Your version would be useful if it still worked with Roguesheet AEP Values

amele · 12/04/08, 1:12 AM

Originally Posted by sp00n

I can't follow you here.
I've modified NeedToKnow a bit to write the number of seconds of a buff's duration into the chat additionally to the bar:

function NeedToKnow.Bar_AuraCheck(bar)
	[...]
	for buffIndex = 1, 40 do
		if ( bar.buffOrDebuff == "HELPFUL" ) then
			buffName, _, _, count, _, duration, expirationTime, isMine = UnitBuff(bar.unit, buffIndex);
			if (buffName == "Slice and Dice") then
				DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Buff: "..buffName.." -> "..duration, 1.0, 0.5, 0.0, 1.0);
			end
		[...]
	end
	[...]
end

It's displaying me 36 seconds here, just as in the sheet

I did some more work on this; it's only an issue with Cut to the Chase: when refreshing CttC with talented SnD and the glyph, I get 34.5 seconds. When I use the slice and dice finisher with 5 combo points; I get 36 seconds (as expected).

An interesting situation, to say the least; my best guess is that the calculation is actually handled differently for CttC; I'm not sure if this is working as intended; either way, until it gets hotfixed, the CttC cycles should really use a variant (snd*imp snd)+glyph formula; rather than the (snd+glyph)*imp snd formula currently implemented.

I'd love to see some 3 finisher variants for CttC cycles as well, but I understand that adding cycles isn't as simple as some of the other requests. (Xe/Yr/Zr, and Xe/Yr/Za would both be wonderful to see.) although I'm not sure how the spreadsheet would handle the potential clipping involved in the former.

burn420 · 12/04/08, 4:33 AM

Can glyph of garrote be added to the glyph list?

todemax · 12/04/08, 4:36 AM

Originally Posted by burn420

Can glyph of garrote be added to the glyph list?

It has no effect on sustained dps, so I don't really see it being added.

burn420 · 12/04/08, 4:48 AM

Originally Posted by todemax

It has no effect on sustained dps, so I don't really see it being added.

I know that but i would like to see it in the list.
Exposed armor has no effect on sustained dps but its in the list as well.

Feist-Mok · 12/04/08, 4:54 AM

Originally Posted by burn420

I know that but i would like to see it in the list.
Exposed armor has no effect on sustained dps but its in the list as well.

It's on the list because it DOES have an effect on the sustained DPS of EA rotations, which are modeled by the spreadsheet because of their raid utility.

Tinbum · 12/04/08, 7:02 AM

Originally Posted by burn420

Can glyph of garrote be added to the glyph list?

More generally, is Glyph of Garrote regarded as being something useful enough to take?

Leto · 12/04/08, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Tinbum

More generally, is Glyph of Garrote regarded as being something useful enough to take?

No. The only spec that uses garrote at all is combat, and it already has 3 essential glyphs.

amele · 12/04/08, 3:59 PM

Originally Posted by Leto

No. The only spec that uses garrote at all is combat, and it already has 3 essential glyphs.

There are situations where I'll use garrote as assassination, but for the purposes where I use it, it's not for the damage; although speeding the damage up is nice for pvp, I don't really see a reason to glyph for it over the other available glyphs which actually *do* increase overall damage.