I believe the expertise bonus works on a hand to hand basis so thats why you don't see it but it is implemented.

And for trinkets, I'll just quote Vulajin.

Of course you can volunteer yourself for extensive testing. I'd do it if I had the trinkets but I don't.

First off, im going to say i havent done much reading on rogue dps but from what i hear its sword/fist combat or mutilate.

Now, im a mace specced combat rogue and ive taken a kind of strange spec that does not use rupture at all. I dont think rupture compares to eviserate in this spec because im dropping 9k+ crits in my blue gear (40% crit with the glyph).

Also, is sword spec still dominant over mace? It looks to me like 15% armor penetration (like 250 armor penetration rating correct me if im wrong) outweighs 5% chance to proc another like 800 dmg white attack? I think mace spec is what makes my eviscerates do so much damage as well.

Am i doing things completely wrong?

Use the spreadsheet. Update your profile with your currently nonexisting rogue.

From my own experience with mace spec, it surely helps for eviscerate damage but it still doesn't outweight 1) using eviscerate over rupture 2) mace spec over sword or fist spec given equal weapons. How good mace spec is depends also purely on targets armor after debuffs.

For quick summary: if you can use rupture, you still should use it over eviscerate with mace spec. If you have chance to pick up almost equal level sword or fist over mace, do it. For more specific numbers use spreadsheet.

What does rupture normally hit for? My guild doesnt normally use feral druids / arms wars so the 30% bleed increase isnt in effect. I just find it hard to use rupture when a crit evis does more than 2 ruptures.

Plus, it may just me being lazy, but i just evis spam and snd when its going down and not generally follow a rotation. With the spikes of energy regen and ss glyph procs / ruthlessness i never know whether ill get 5 cps in 4 seconds or 12 seconds. Hard to time ruptures imo.

Pure speculation below:
Crit reduction is 0.6% per level, and with a difference from weapon skill to defense of >10, there's an additional 3% reduction, resulting in a total crit reduction of 4.8% versus mobs 3 levels higher than you.

It's not that we haven't seen things like that before...

Nope, that's the correct procedure for Excel. My assumption is that Vulajin was describing the procedure for OpenOffice, but I haven't used it so I can't be certain. In Excel, pressing ESC will undo the copy, leaving you with an empty clipboard.

The main point is just that you must copy the value and not the formula from cell C8 to C9.

Edit: I'm using Excel 2007 on Windows. I can't speak for other versions of Excel.

It works for me in Excel 2003 on the Mac, so I dunno, whatever.

I think this is a problem with Excel 2007, as that's what I'm using and I have this same problem.

Is the 4piece Bonescythe bonus implemented into the spreadsheet? I didn't see it in the changelog.

I'm having trouble trying to find out if the spreadsheet takes into account socket bonuses on items too. I'm guessing it does, but I cannot seem to find anywhere in the gear tab sheet to prove this

Vulajin, confirmed on my end as I have both trinkets, the Darkmoon Card: Greatness and the Darkmoon Card: Death trinkets both have 45 second internal cooldowns.

In my opinion, it's a damned shame for the latter.

Anyway, hope that info is useful. I'll post the combat log if you want it.

Unbuffed, it hits for 5600-6100 here depending on what is proccing. Remember that Rupture costs 25 energy.

I already accepted that with Mangle, Rupture beats Eviscerate hands down. But we are only starting Naxx in 10man groups, and we don't have feral druid or warrior usually. So I checked the WWS report from one run too see the actual numbers:
Rupture : 4720 (with glyph, blood splatter, but no serrated blades)
Eviscerate: 4847 (with 2/3 in improved, no glyph, but with lucky 50% crit rate, so you can think about is as glyphed)
So, it seems that even with entry level raiding Rupture is about equal, and when you move to 25man raids and get more AP and the bleed debuff, it will be much better. So maybe you may not stress about using it now, but a training of how to maintain good rotations will profit later.

I'm having some problems with the roguecraft spreadsheet and i'm wondering if i someone could shed some light on my specific issue. (If this has been answered before, sorry, i couldn't find anything with the search function).

Now I'm a novice at rogue mechanics, I just became lvl 80 and before LK I've always played a caster. At the moment my spec is combat swords since it's easy to level with and does good dps in heroics. However, I have heard that mutilate is superior and thus I downloaded the spreadsheet in order to give me an estimate on how much better it is. I correctly entered the talents, gear, buff etc with a Xe/Yr CttC cycle and i'm happy to say my dps jumped from 1700 to 2115. (note: this is without any buffs and my gear is crap). So far, all good, but i encountered somewhat of a wierd situation.

As far as i know for mutilate you want two fast daggers. Currently i have Reaper of the Dark Souls (2.7 sword) MH and Librarian's Cutter OH. But when i change Reaper in the gear section to a good dagger, for example Omen of Ruin, my dps drops by 10. How is this possible? Only with the best 25man daggers does my dps increase, which is ludicrous.

Is there a bug in the spreadsheet, am i completely wrong about mutilate mechanics or ... ?

Are you changing all the pertinent things when you swap back and forth? The sheet doesn't try to check if you're Mutilating with swords or Sinister Striking with a dagger. Spec/gear/combo builder and finisher cycle need to be changed when comparing Assassination to Combat.

Well my combo point builder is Mutilate, Use envenom instead of Eviscerate is True, cycle is set to Xe/yr 4/4/5. Is this correct or am i missing something?

Edit: the original poster edited his post so i understood it correctly and i edited mine aswell which unfortunatly makes the post below redundant :p.

He's referring to the Talent_Settings page of the spreadsheet and asking if you're changing all the relevant settings (especially those on the right hand side of the page) when switching between combat and mutilate.

Personally I'd suggest you keep a separate version of the spreadsheet for each individual talent build. That way you're less likely to overlook a setting whilst switching.

Thanks for the tip. But I'm pretty everything in Talents & Settings is setup correctly and the problem remains the same.

The easiest thing to do is to post your sheet and state what you are doing to get the result (including any talent changes or other settings you are making.) That will make it easy to determine if it's a bug in the sheet, user error, an unmodeled mechanic or just an odd gear combination that does that.

I would love to see this spreadsheet list items by upgrade, even if its just an approximation and wont hold true for every spec, and not sorted alphabetically. Similar to how the rogue gear sheet used to list them. After entering in your initial gear it makes it a lot easier to find the slots that have the most upgrades, and usually the biggest upgrades available without knowing the exact item you are looking for first.

Well, I'd love to do just that, but how do I post the spreadsheet? I didn't see an upload tag anywhere and I'm completely clueless how to do it otherwise. (I tried with [table] but I really doubt that's what you mean)