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Old 06/22/08, 5:28 PM   #31
• Vulajin
Vula'jin the Void, blessed by the loa
 
Vulajin's Avatar
 
Undead Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Thanks for the OpenOffice fix, I'll be sure to implement that for 0.1.4. Could you please elaborate on the circular reference on DPS Calc 1 and Cooldowns 1? By design the sheet should have no circular references, so if one exists it is an error and I'll need to fix it.

Originally Posted by Enervate
Yep, still a fucking idiot.

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Old 06/22/08, 5:48 PM   #32
Karmon
Piston Honda
 
Human Rogue
 
Teldrassil (EU)
Originally Posted by Vulajin View Post
Thanks for the OpenOffice fix, I'll be sure to implement that for 0.1.4. Could you please elaborate on the circular reference on DPS Calc 1 and Cooldowns 1? By design the sheet should have no circular references, so if one exists it is an error and I'll need to fix it.
Sorry for the false alarm. I double checked with the original version you posted and it looks like I inadvertantly changed a cell that resulted in that said circular reference.

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Old 06/22/08, 5:52 PM   #33
Rei86
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Gorefiend
So with the gear that my toon has for PVE gear I wanted to see how much DPS I would have if I went from Sword/Sword BOI/BOS to the Badge MH/BOS combo.

Well I thought that combo would do more DPS but it showed it as a 2DPS downgrade. I know thats not that "HUGE" of a difference but I'm one of thos lame min/max type of people:/

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Old 06/24/08, 5:21 PM   #34
• Vulajin
Vula'jin the Void, blessed by the loa
 
Vulajin's Avatar
 
Undead Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Version 0.1.4 is available via the link in the first post. Changes:

- Fixed Gear sheet compatibility issues with OpenOffice.
- Reimplemented extra attack calculations in line with the new findings on same.

Link to extra attack findings

Reimplementing extra attacks based on these new findings literally increased my DPS estimate by 70. It also suggested that if I were to equip [Talon of Azshara] in place of the [Vanir's Right Fist of Brutality] I currently use, I would experience a gain in DPS (slight loss from the weapon swap itself, but gained back and then some thanks to poison talents). Please note that the beta disclaimer still applies, so I am not at all advocating everyone go out and switch from Vanir's to ToA even if you have one lying around.

Originally Posted by Enervate
Yep, still a fucking idiot.

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Old 06/25/08, 1:03 PM   #35
Falian
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Gorgonnash (EU)
I just played around with the sheet and found something strange, not sure if its a bug, but thought it might be good to post it here:

When looking at the DPS Table with the "Target Level" set as 71 (anything except Boss I assume) the chance to miss seems to be 1% too high.

Shouldn't the formula in Cell B13 (and C13) be
"=MAX(WENN(blevel="Boss";0,28;0,24+0,005*(blevel-clevel))-$C4;0)"
instead of
"=MAX(WENN(blevel="Boss";0,28;0,25+0,005*(blevel-clevel))-$C4;0)"

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Old 06/25/08, 4:19 PM   #36
• Vulajin
Vula'jin the Void, blessed by the loa
 
Vulajin's Avatar
 
Undead Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Thanks for the report, that's definitely a bug and will be fixed in 0.1.5.

Originally Posted by Enervate
Yep, still a fucking idiot.

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Old 06/28/08, 1:59 AM   #37
duvar
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Warrior
 
Azgalor
I have a few suggestions. This may sound stupid but I'm actually using this spreadsheet while levelling my rogue. After much work I did figure out how to add my own gear into the spreadsheet since this obviously only includes endgame gear. But what I would like is a) for the Agility to Crit factor to be automatically calculated based on the value of Player Level, and b) for Target Level to, instead of being hardcoded to 70, 71, 72, boss, instead be relative, e.g. +0, +1, +2, +3, ... This would allow the calculations to be more accurate for people who are not 70. I realize it's the exception rather than the norm, but I don't think it would be difficult to add, and the spreadsheet already supports non-level 70 players in various other ways anyway.

Also I'm not sure if this is considered a bug, but I set the combat duration to 20s to hopeuflly adjust for the fact that the mobs I'm fighting have very low HP and usually die quickly. But it still tells me that Xs/Yr with X=1 and Y=5 is the optimal ability rotation. I don't believe this is true, because in a typical fight by the time I've done 1 S&D and have 5 Combo Points built up, the mob is really close to dead, and there's no way i'll get the full benefit of a 5 point rupture. 1 Eviscerate usually finishes it, or very close. So in this case Xs/Ye should be DPS.

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Old 06/28/08, 2:30 AM   #38
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
So, the trick is, spreadsheets of this sort are usually designed to model sustained combat, not the short fights one sees while leveling. When you're less than level 70 and not raiding, all manner of assumptions change. When leveling, you're usually attacking from the front, rather than the back; this changes the value of various stats. A typical mob while leveling tends to only survive for 15 or 20 seconds, tops, which *significantly* changes the balance of white and yellow damage. It takes time traveling from mob to mob, which effects the value of activated abilities and procs with cooldowns.

The point is that converting a spreadsheet from the usual assumptions for raiding to the assumptions for leveling requires a lot more than changing a few numbers. It's really a totally different ballgame. Thus, even if the changes you suggest were made... it still wouldn't really be that helpful for optimizing leveling. It's not what the sheet is designed for. So personally, I don't see a lot of point in making such changes.

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Old 06/28/08, 2:53 AM   #39
• Vulajin
Vula'jin the Void, blessed by the loa
 
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Undead Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Just to make it clear, the "duration" parameter of the spreadsheet applies only to the modeling of cooldowns and their effects. It affects nothing else.

Originally Posted by Enervate
Yep, still a fucking idiot.

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Old 06/28/08, 12:20 PM   #40
duvar
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Warrior
 
Azgalor
Originally Posted by Aldriana View Post
The point is that converting a spreadsheet from the usual assumptions for raiding to the assumptions for leveling requires a lot more than changing a few numbers. It's really a totally different ballgame. Thus, even if the changes you suggest were made... it still wouldn't really be that helpful for optimizing leveling. It's not what the sheet is designed for. So personally, I don't see a lot of point in making such changes.

I agree it's definitely not what the sheet was designed for. But you did mention for example that while raiding you're usually fighting behind the mob and levelling you're in front of the mob. The sheet actually has a cell that allows you to choose the positioning, front or back. Anyway I'll definitely get over it if the Agility to Crit and Target Level fields aren't updated, just a suggestion. For what it's worth, even though I'm doing "levelling" fights and not raid fights, the dps numbers are accurate to within 2-3% when I compare the spreadsheet to my own numbers.

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Old 06/29/08, 1:12 AM   #41
• Vulajin
Vula'jin the Void, blessed by the loa
 
Vulajin's Avatar
 
Undead Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Version 0.2.0 is available via the link in the first post. Changes:

- Mongoose corrected to 1.2 PPM.
- Corrected base miss chance for targets below Boss level.
- Reworked extra attack calculations to assume an extra attack can proc other types of extra attacks, but not the same type.
- Streamlined iterative calculation implementation for energy procs.
- Tweaked armor penetration calculations to allow EA if the user specifies an EA cycle with 2/2 Imp EA, even if EA isn't activated in Buffs.
- Added season 4 arena armor and off-set pieces.
- Added Fire-Toasted Bun as a consumable buff.
- Implemented all remaining unimplemented DPS talents.

A lot of changes that make this version substantially easier for me to use as a base for future efforts (for example, a Wrath version eventually), as well as a lot of accuracy improvements, so I went ahead and bumped it to 0.2.0. The beta disclaimer still applies though.

Originally Posted by Enervate
Yep, still a fucking idiot.

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Old 06/29/08, 8:13 AM   #42
Karmon
Piston Honda
 
Human Rogue
 
Teldrassil (EU)
I have trouble understanding an IMO strange behaviour of this sheet.
It has to do with cycle selection and energy pooling.

Opening the sheet it comes with a cycle of 5s/5r and 60/60 energypooling
When playing with the engerypooling in the rupture part e.g. setting to 0, you loose some 2 dps.
I can explain that as follows: you trade a ruture under AtoL with the a SS under AtoL, giving a slight DPS boost.

Now the puzzling part:
Setting the rupture part to a 4pt rupture the sheet gives a 6DPS increase and it does not matter how many energy you pool in the rupture part of the cycle.
I am at a loss what happens here.
Especialy why now it does not matter if you perform the rupture under AtoL or not.

Can it be explained by mechanics?
Is it a bug in the cycle/enegry model?

Last edited by Karmon : 06/29/08 at 8:18 AM. Reason: Clarification

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Old 06/30/08, 4:39 AM   #43
• Vulajin
Vula'jin the Void, blessed by the loa
 
Vulajin's Avatar
 
Undead Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Karmon View Post
Can it be explained by mechanics?
Is it a bug in the cycle/enegry model?
Yes, it's a stupid stupid bug I just found that further cements the reasoning behind the beta disclaimer. However, it'll be fixed in 0.2.1. (For reference, for some reason I have a certain part of my cycle calculations figuring the energy required to generate the CP for all finishers based on the specified "Y" value instead of the actual CP value for that finisher.)

Last edited by Vulajin : 06/30/08 at 4:48 AM.

Originally Posted by Enervate
Yep, still a fucking idiot.

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Old 06/30/08, 6:16 PM   #44
• Vulajin
Vula'jin the Void, blessed by the loa
 
Vulajin's Avatar
 
Undead Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Version 0.2.1 is available via the link in the first post. Changes:

- Fixed an error in cycle calculations related to Seal Fate cycle modeling.
- Specifying fewer than 2 points in Improved Expose Armor no longer prevents Expose Armor from working.
- Modified Deadly Poison calcs to accommodate Shiv and Envenom.
- Implemented Envenom as an alternative for use in Eviscerate-designated cycles.

Note that Envenom/DP interaction modeling is something I basically invented on the spur of the moment. I think it's probably reasonably accurate, but who knows. I'd definitely like people to make a point of double-checking it.

Originally Posted by Enervate
Yep, still a fucking idiot.

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Old 07/01/08, 10:11 PM   #45
duvar
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Warrior
 
Azgalor
Sorry if this has been asked before, I saw a mention of trinket procs on a previous page, but not trinket use effects. It doesn't seem like trinket use effects are being taken into consideration in calculations. It would be nice if, for each trinket, it had a buff column, an amount column, and a cooldown column. Then perhaps another cell on the main page that allowed you to turn on/off calculation of trinket use effects, and any calculations done would assume 100% uptime whenever cooldown was available. Are there any inherent problems with this?

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