I picked up a [Mark of Norgannon] last Malygos. I took it because I figured capping expertise would be a good thing after getting decently above the 9% hit. I swapped it for [Bandit's Insignia] ([Mirror of Truth] other slot) and my dps dropped. It aint by alot, but enough to make me wonder what to equip now.

I also check maxdps.com for comparison and that site tells me to get expertise with all force (tells me to get 16 exp gems even) so puts the Mark higher then the Insignia.

Which should I put more value on?

Drop Norgannon. You're ignoring the proc/use effects which also gives dps.

From the pocket guide I picked up the DP MH with IP OH because of the Mutilate effect of proccing OH poison twice, with the new patch they are nerfing that effect. Would that change the poisons we use at all or are we sticking to DP MH with IP OH?

I noticed a strange b ehaviour of the 0.4.4 LK Spreadsheet, maybe someone can help me clear up:

I have socketed nearly all my sockets with [Bright Scarlet Ruby].
When I exchange one [Bright Scarlet Ruby] for a [Delicate Scarlet Ruby] my dps goes up by about 0,63dps.
So far so good, sp00ns AEP-Sheet tells me agility is better than raw AP by about 3% so that behaviour is expected.

BUT when I exchange the second [Bright Scarlet Ruby] for a [Delicate Scarlet Ruby] my dps goes down by -0,35 dps! Notice: no color change, I exchanged Scarlet Ruby for Scarlet Ruby, it also doesn't matter what slot I use, so an error in a slot or item in the spreadsheet can be ruled out (I think).

It gets even more strange: when I exchange the third bright for a delicate scarlet ruby, my dps goes up again by 1,07dps. When I do it for the fourth gem, the dps goes up by 0,55 dps and with the fifth gem it drops down again by -0,93 dps.

So can anyone understand this behaviour of the spreadsheet?
Is there a hidden logic in these dps-ups and downs I fail to see or is there a bug in the spreadsheet?

Rerox,

I think you have demonstrated what the spreadsheet is there to do.

I don't have the numbers memorized, but I do know that Agility adds 1 AP as well as some crit%, armor, and dodge (and possibly something else).

The [Bright Scarlet Ruby] adds twice as much AP as the [Delicate Scarlet Ruby], however, it does not add additional crit%. What this shows is that there is a point where crit and AP maximize for your current gear and build. Seeing how this varies the way it does, I'd almost go so far as to look at what happens when you put a [Wicked Monarch Topaz] in the slot.

*Edit - typo

It will still be DP on slow weapon, IP on fast weapon no matter which hand the weapons are in.

I've noticed the same behaviour when I tried exchanging my last [Delicate Scarlet Ruby] with a [Bright Scarlet Ruby] and playing around with my other [Bright Scarlet Ruby]s. Interestingly enough, since I recently swapped my [Meteorite Whetstone] for [Fury of the Five Flights], the spreadsheet tells me that gemming straight for ap would be better than having that last [Delicate Scarlet Ruby], even though I lost the crit rating from the Whetstone in exchange for just plain attack power (a lot of it though).

As we have very similar gear I guess it comes down to what Kmannkoopa said. *shrugs*

No - if you were right in this, then as he gradually swapped gems from AP to Agility you'd see a smooth curve of DPS values, rising as you got closer to optimal balance and then dropping away after. Instead, he's getting alternating results even when all the changes are in the same direction (AP to Agility). That can't be explained by a simple passing of the inflection point between AP and agility. Rerox: I strongly suspect rounding issues are the reason for what you observe. To the best of my knowledge, the rounding behaviour of the spreadsheet is the same as Blizzard's internal algorithms.

In any case, the difference is so slight that it's really not worth worrying about. 0.95 DPS will never be observable. That being so, gem Agi / AP according to personal preference, or simply whichever is cheaper on the AH. My own preference would be Agility for the marginally increased survivability from dodge. If you PvP or solo grind a lot, you may prefer AP since it performs better than Agi in any situation where you don't have BoK.

Something for a future version:
Master of Anatomy (rank 6) went from 25 to 32 crit rating in patch 3.0.8

Why? This spreadsheet solves is a multi-variable problem, and since there are so many variables, there are lots of points of inflection, and lots of ups and downs. By just changing these variables, we are still dealing with a 2nd, possibly 3rd order equation. As we seem to be hovering around a value, it looks like we have hit the small chance that we are at a point of inflection, and I find this more believable than rounding error. As near as I can tell by looking at the spreadsheet, the only rounded numbers are Str, Agi, and AP. All DPS calculations, are not rounded until it is presented after calculation, in my version of Excel at least, it means they are calculated out to 11 decimal places. I find it less likely to believe that the rounding error is causing error over a factor of 1x10^9.

I think that in this case, it is just someone who got lucky enough to end up at a special number.

Edit: Rather than type a new post, I like the answer in the post directly below this better than either the idea of rounding or point of inflection.

The error isn't from machine rounding error, it's from the fact that Blessing of Kings can only increase your stats by an integer quantity. Depending on what you started with, adding a 16 agility gem could either increase your actual total agility by 17 or 18. This difference is certainly enough to explain the discrepancy.

Right now, the spreadsheet floors agility. While this may be what happens in game, we have to consider that the "agility" as reported by a spreadsheet is a statistical mean of agility values, not an observed value in game. Therefore it would actually make more sense to subtract 0.5 from the mean agility to account for the average behavior of a floor function over a uniform distribution.

If you do this (with all stats), it would eliminate the problem of the value of each point of a stat jumping around so arbitrarily. I'd argue this is more mathematically valid as well.

Some people would probably argue with me about treating expertise as continuous. I still think it's more helpful when making gear decisions to treat it this way, though -- as long as the spreadsheet somehow conveys how much of it is "wasted".

Possible error with 4.4 sheet, unless I am missing something when I swap out [Heroes' Bonescythe Legplates] for [Leggings of the Honored] with same gems we are talking a decrease of more than 25dps. Both have the icesacale armor on them. Surely the 4 set bonus from T7 gear is outwieghed by the stat increases from [Leggings of the Honored]?

No, and that's exactly what the spreadsheet is for. 4-piece is better than you're giving it credit for. Generally the best setup for Mut is 4 + [Chestguard of the Recluse]. For Combat it's 4 + [Leggings of the Honored].

I just read the 3.0.8 patch notes and I noticed the dual poison proc chance with Mutilate has been removed. Does thsi mean that from now on as Mutilate Deadly should be on offhand and Wound on mainhand?

Actually BIS for me in combat comes to Malygos BP + 4 piece I can post a link to my copy if you wold like. I believe it comes down to maximizing to the exp cap to be honest.

Edit: Didn't feel like making new post for this. But i believe it is Instant main and Deadly OH now

Searching? Hell they aren't even reading three posts up. It's one thing to ask about something that was determined a month or so ago, but when this has been asked and answered in every topic in the last 24 hrs it is very obnoxious.

Also note that if you're a JC, [Chestguard of the Recluse] would be better for combat as well since it has a red socket instead of a blue. This way you will have exactly 3 blue sockets for the prismatic gems in the end-game set, as opposed to 4 if you use [Leggings of the Honored].

Hey lads!

When you got to choose from WD, OoR and LPC, what weapon would you put where? According to updated shadowpanther, WD in OH and LPC in MH would be the way to go, but according to the spreadsheet here its OoR in OH and WD in MH. What do you say? Why are they so far off from another?


Thank you.

Webbed Death is a better main hand than LPC. The choice between Omen of Ruin and LPC in the OH is a little less obvious, but I'd gather since the 0.2s doesn't make nearly as much of a difference for the OH w/ Deadly Poison that Omen of Ruin is likely better, as the spreadsheet indicates.

I just downloaded the 0.4.4 spreadsheet and the default template has the same daggers that i have right now:

* Omen of Ruin (~143 dps , 1.5s)
* Sinister Revenge (~171 dps, 1.8s)

I cant understand why

Omen of Ruin on MH (with IP)
Sinster Revenge on OH (with DP)

its better than

Sinister Revenge on MH (with DP)
Omen of Ruin on OH (with IP)

We are sacrificing our bigger dps/max ranged weapon (for white and yellow damage) putting it on a OH (25% penalty with dual weid). Focused Attack still works at the same way changing the weapons (at last reading the tooltip). Also Mutilate uses both hands.

I see people saying that you have more special attacks on MH, so more chances to proc poison but Attacks like Rupture (dot) or Evenom sounds that are not weapon dependant or i am wrong and they proc MH poisons?
Finisher like SnD procs IP?
Is there somekind of proc nerf on offhand?

Doing the change the dps difference was lower than 1% on spreadsheet (really low), so i presume that it comes from somekind of a secondary effect that its not so direct and its not clear to me.

To simplify the comparison just answer me why when using two weapons with same dps but different speeds (like omen of ruin and titansteel shanker) will be better to put the faster on MH? Assuming Fast weapons aways with IP and slower with DP.

The below applies to Mutilate spec with 3/3 Improved Poisons:

Short answer: this has been covered many times in various rogue threads in this forum. I suggest using search and reading a few of the more popular topics for a while before posting.

Short-long answer: You want IP on your fastest dagger. You also want IP on your MH dagger because of special moves being performed off your MH weapon. Therefore you want your fastest dagger to be in your MH to absolutely maximize your IP damage. What does that leave? Your slow weapon in your OH with DP on it.