The Roguecraft Spreadsheet - Page 40

sephfiroth · 12/05/08, 7:54 PM

Originally Posted by Oscassey

That is what I want to find out how to do. The gear in the drop downs must be listed somewhere, and when updates are made these lists are receiving new entries. How can I make my own entries ?

First, at the bottom of the spreadsheet, right click on 'Gear'.

Click on 'View Code'. This should open MSVisual.

Scroll down the list of sheets, till you find "Sheet20Ranged". Left click on it once.

In the next window, there is a drop down menu called "Visible". click that and enable 'xlsheetvisible'.

Save.

Then go back to spreadsheet. At the bottom, you should have a new tab called "Ranged".

Pop into that spreadsheet and edit a item that already exists in there, to your item, rename if you want. I dont think you can simply create new items without making a few more complex changes.

Macabrie · 12/05/08, 7:59 PM

Or run 3 heroics and buy A Better Weapon.

Anonymousrogue · 12/06/08, 1:57 AM

Great work on the spreadsheet!

I have a quick question, while i understand how to sort it to my: Gear/Talents/Rotation - found on the first page(I've been recommended a 4S/4R/5E cycle) I was completely stumped on what the two last tabs were telling me, Cycles and the DPS page. I didn't know what to look for and i wasn't sure what it was telling me. I did try and search for this question but i couldn't find any to really match what i was asking.

• Vulajin · 12/06/08, 2:14 AM

Everything an average user needs to know is on the Talents & Settings, Gear, Buffs, and Cooldowns sheets. The Cycles and DPS sheets are there if you want to look under the hood a little.

• Vulajin · 12/06/08, 3:42 AM

Version 0.4.2 is now available via the download link in the first post. Changes:

- Mutilate now has two chances for all non-crit-based off hand procs.
- Increased armor to 13083 to reflect findings on same.
- Added Bandit's Insignia, Darkmoon Card: Death, Darkmoon Card: Greatness, and Mark of Norgannon.
- Implemented Heroic Presence, finally.
- Fixed an error preventing the Eternal Belt Buckle from granting its extra socket.

Note that most of the trinket valuations thus far are estimates. I simply guessed a 45 second ICD for any effect for which I didn't already know the exact ICD (in other words, everything but Mirror of Truth, which I believe is 50 seconds).

drumbum · 12/06/08, 5:45 AM

Vulajin, I'm not sure if you have been paying attention to the Retesting hit table assumptions thread at all, but if not I wanted to summarize the main findings as they would apply to your spreadsheet:

- It appears to be proven at this point that the special hit cap has decreased from 9% to 8% against boss mobs. The special hit cap against equal level targets remains 5%, however. This is covered in more detail in the Is melee hit cap really 9%? thread.

- My tests suggest that the dual-wielding white hit cap has also dropped by 1% to 27% against boss mobs. However there really hasn't been extensive testing done on this, and a more reliable test could be performed by someone with considerably more hit rating gear than I have. However, if we assume that the special hit cap did in fact drop to 8%, it's probably the more likely case that the white cap would have changed along with it.

- Last but not least, there is clearly a ~4.5% crit chance penalty for physical attacks against boss mobs. Apparently this was actually discovered during Burning Crusade by other classes (see this page) but somehow has gone overlooked until now by all of the rogue spreadsheets. Toskk estimated the crit chance reduction at 4.2% and other sources seem to have come up with 4.4%, but these were based on tests done against ZG bosses when test dummies didn't exist. I'm guessing my data from the test dummy is a better predictor for this which puts it closer to 4.5%.

ABUSEDGOAT · 12/06/08, 6:00 AM

Long time reader, first time poster. I love your spreadsheet, it's done miracles for me as well as the rogue community in general.

First a bit of background, I am usually combat 7-51-13 with fist/sword. I have just about the best possible pre raid gear except for shoulders from naxx.
This is my armory. The World of Warcraft Armory

First the fast question.
I usually run wound/wound poison, even though the spreadsheet says that wound/deadly is better. However, experimenting with this I set the fight time to 10 seconds. Even in a 10 second fight it says deadly comes out on top, which makes no sense to me. In almost all my real fights (Instructor Razuvious for example) I find 2x wound will do a larger % of my DPS than wound + deadly. Kinda lost here... (2.6 fist with wound, 1.5 sword with deadly)

Now for what really confused me.
With the fist/sword spec, I started experimenting with where to take out points so the combat tree would have 51.
With sword spec at 4/5 my DPS is at 4367.1. (spreadsheet value, I can only dream of that DPS for an extended fight)
With CQC at 4/5 and sword spec at 5/5 my dps is about 4367.6. Fine, that's believable.
However, if I go 1/2 imp SnD and 5/5 fist, 5/5 sword my DPS is 4389. Taking that 1 point out of imp SnD lowers my DPS by 0.08. Taking the second point out drops it by over 50. The only conclusion I'm getting here is that there are times with combat where both rupture and slice are (hypothetically) around 8 seconds and the energy bar fills, which forces me to refresh slice/rupture. Does taking the point out of imp slice clean up the slice/rupture rotation? IMO the spreadsheet wins here, but perhaps I could get some clarification.

Feist-Mok · 12/06/08, 6:54 AM

Originally Posted by ABUSEDGOAT

With the fist/sword spec, I started experimenting with where to take out points so the combat tree would have 51.
With sword spec at 4/5 my DPS is at 4367.1. (spreadsheet value, I can only dream of that DPS for an extended fight)
With CQC at 4/5 and sword spec at 5/5 my dps is about 4367.6. Fine, that's believable.
However, if I go 1/2 imp SnD and 5/5 fist, 5/5 sword my DPS is 4389. Taking that 1 point out of imp SnD lowers my DPS by 0.08. Taking the second point out drops it by over 50. The only conclusion I'm getting here is that there are times with combat where both rupture and slice are (hypothetically) around 8 seconds and the energy bar fills, which forces me to refresh slice/rupture. Does taking the point out of imp slice clean up the slice/rupture rotation? IMO the spreadsheet wins here, but perhaps I could get some clarification.

What cycle do you have it set for?

Try changing to a 3 finisher cycle that includes an Eviscerate. That should increase the value of CQC relative to sword spec, and of Imp. S&D, as well as being a net DPS increase.

ABUSEDGOAT · 12/06/08, 7:30 AM

Originally Posted by Feist-Mok

What cycle do you have it set for?

Try changing to a 3 finisher cycle that includes an Eviscerate. That should increase the value of CQC relative to sword spec, and of Imp. S&D, as well as being a net DPS increase.

3s/5r for 4/5 CQC for 4367.x
4s/5r for 4/5 sword for 4367.x
3s/5r for 1/2 Snd is 4389, 4s is actually 4391

Playing with s/r/e the highest I could get was 5/5/5 at 4283 with 4/5 sword.
With 4/5 CQC I could get 4279 with 5/5/4
With 1/2 SnD I could get 4267 with 4/5/1 (no surprise here)

I used to run with 2/2 SnD, 5/5 CQC and 4/5 sword, but I just changed based on this. Is the 1% extra sword proc going to outweigh that slice time for an occasional eviscerate? It seems unlikely but possible.

EDIT: Going to bed, will check back tomorrow.

alexmgp · 12/06/08, 8:11 AM

hi all this is all new to me i was just wondering //do i need excel for spreed sheets ???

i been reading all the post and i ready dont understand ( i guess i need the spreed sheets )to truely understand
any help in this matter would b helpful
p.s love the website its been very helpful

songster · 12/06/08, 9:51 AM

Originally Posted by alexmgp

hi all this is all new to me i was just wondering //do i need excel for spreed sheets ???

Personally I translate the binary code into Morse and listen to it on my headphones, but I'm just good that way. Mere mortals will indeed need to use Excel or OpenOffice. Because it's a spreadsheet...

• Vulajin · 12/06/08, 3:29 PM

I am aware of that thread, Drumbum, I just tend to overlook things when I churn out an update in an hour like I did last night. Might as well take the opportunity to let you guys see if you can nail down the exact crit rate reduction, at which point I'll add it in.

kaojinn · 12/06/08, 8:22 PM

I apologize if this has already been brought to your attention, but my intention is to be helpful rather than annoying

It seems that the 3 expertise bonus for human rogues using swords isn't currently working. I'm also curious about whether or not theres a hard numbers estimation for the proc breakdown on some trinkets. For example, I have mirror of truth and tears of bitter anguish, but I'm not sure of how often they proc (outside of unscientific guestimation as to how the proc frequency "feels") and whether or not they have a hidden cooldown.

Xaoc · 12/06/08, 8:39 PM

Read up 8 posts and you'll see Vulajin's trinket information.

• Aldriana · 12/06/08, 8:39 PM

Originally Posted by drumbum

- Last but not least, there is clearly a ~4.5% crit chance penalty for physical attacks against boss mobs. Apparently this was actually discovered during Burning Crusade by other classes (see this page) but somehow has gone overlooked until now by all of the rogue spreadsheets. Toskk estimated the crit chance reduction at 4.2% and other sources seem to have come up with 4.4%, but these were based on tests done against ZG bosses when test dummies didn't exist. I'm guessing my data from the test dummy is a better predictor for this which puts it closer to 4.5%.

I think we can safely say it's higher than 4.5%. By unspeccing talents and stripping off all but a few pieces of gear, I got my tooltip crit down to 4.73%, and, in 4072 attacks on the Heroic Training Dummy I've yet to see a crit. Assuming the crit reduction is 4.5%, I should be critting .23% of the time - and the probability of no crits in 4072 attacks with a .23% crit rate are somewhere around .008%. In fact, with a crit reduction of 4.6% (hence a crit rate of .13%) I'd be 95% likely to see a crit in that number of attacks, so it's probably even more than 4.6%.

On the other hand, I can say with certainty that it's less than 5%, as by setting my crit to 5% I saw 12 crits in 1689 attacks. So it seems to me that the reduction must be somewhere in the range 4.6 to 5.0%. Additional testing will be needed to narrow it down further.