Yea, it seemed a little strange to me as well, but that is what listed as highest after fiddling with the spreadsheet, though that may be due to just tightness with the cycles.

It doesn't seem to be energy starved though due to vitality, combat potency, etc... but you don't get enough energy to use a three finisher cycle.

What duration was the fight set to for those DPS estimates in the spreadsheet? I ask because I would assume that AR glyph would be better than BF glyph for combat anything~

You need to enable the buff in the buffs page.

I know this is a late response to this, as I've been away from these forums for a bit... but wouldn't that last statement depend on the build? I'd think the Agility would be more valuable if you spec deep enough into Subtlety for PvP to benefit from Sinister Calling. Also, Agility converts to more Dodge for Unfair Advantage if you are solo grinding in a combat spec with that talent.

Fight duration is 2:30 which is <Drow>'s avg patchwerk kill.

Btw the reason evis gylph is dropping dps is because your snd isn't long enough for rupture to go fully on 3s/5r/5e. Going to 4s/5r/5e and swapping to evis should be an overall gain because it a loss for me to go to your cycle.

I adjusted the cycle to account for the change in snd up time, and it was still a dps loss. I'll try with the 2:30 fight time, that might do it.

Edit: just noticed I didn't have potion of speed enabled. Set that and changed the duration to 150 and I got up to 5271, so that was it.

Making those changes for combat daggers however brought it up to 5260, so the gap lessened...

It's somewhat ironic that you're posting this on the Roguecraft Spreadsheet thread as the answer will surely be - check the spreadsheet.

So as not to waste a post, SR and WD seem to come out slightly below dual WD for most people. Current best 4 trinkets are [Fury of the Five Flights], [Darkmoon Card: Greatness], [Grim Toll] and [Mirror of Truth]

That's what I'd heard, but for me, with 4pc and recluse chest, SR oh comes out slightly ahead of 2 wd.

As anarcid said, yes, WD/IP mh, SR/dp oh is more than likely the top dps vs a static boss mob etc. That said, my personal preference is 2x WD, which I feel gives me slightly more leeway in terms of applying deadly poisons & the like. This applies moreso to "trash", Loatheb, and other fights which require target switching & mobility. WD/Murder is also 100% viable.

The spreadsheet can't model exact behaviour, because it only approximates. But wouldn't the long-term results favour those in the spreadsheet, even if you may miss a combo here, maybe drop a DP stack there, every once in a while? Because just as the RNG lets the bad happen, it would also let the good happen.

What external reasons might exist for gearing and gemming contrary to what the sheet says besides making it a little easier to maintain a rotation sometimes?

If it was a perfect model, yes. But as Aldriana said, Vulajin's sheet doesn't model certain parts perfectly (I think he'd also admit his own sheet isn't a perfect model for Mutilate). As a result, results don't necessarily converge to what either sheet shows as a result.

As to the second part, there don't have to be any other external reasons. Cycle stability is enough of a reason on it's own.

Something interesting that I've noticed. Since the patch came out, and I got my Glyph of Rupture, finally, the spreadsheet now tells me that my optimal LETHALITY build is 4s/5r instead of 3s/5r/5e. I'm not sure if it expects me to refresh rupture before SnD falls off giving a literal cycle of 4s/5r/5r. I was always pretty good at 3s/5r/5r, although rupture would fall off quite a bit. I'm guessing it's gear related, but I was wondering if anyone else might have any ideas why this would be the case.

Um regarding the spreadsheets and our supposed best dps set ups for combat. I get reports from wws etc of combat rogues legitimately pulling upwards of 5300 dps in optimal gear and around 2:30 min fights or 150 second fights. Now in my gear i have ATM it says i should pull 4500 i pull 4600 (not the greatest but not horrible for only having 22 people in our raids). My question though is anyone able to make the spreadsheet reflect a dps that is this high for combat spec. I have tried optimized buffs and rotations and only ever seem to be able to get to around 5k dps. I use a 3s/5r/4-5e rotation and reflect that on spread sheets by setting my minimal combo points used on rotations to respectively 3/5/4. Am i missing some mechanic that would make the spreadsheet show things i see other rogues pull on fights like patchwork?

Perhaps 4 BM hunters in your group. Change cell 42D in the buff section to 0.12.

Thank you sir changing Ferocious Insperation from .03 to .12 did in fact make my dps go from 4900 -5300 (WTB x4 bm hunters who are now gimped???) Also does this mean we shouldnt expect to see numbers in the 5300 range (combat speced) without x4 hunters/bm specced?

Uh, I may be wrong but isn't Ferocious Bite raid-wide and doesn't stack? Regarding your question, make sure you set correct timing for your cooldowns and change the fight duration.

so then changing the number from .03 to .12 isnt actually modeling correct raid buffing and isnt the problem, and see i did change the fight and when i put in my optimal gear setup i still only com out at around 5k just a litte under. hmmz.

Maybe he reveived other buffs, like Hysteria or (multiple) TotT.

Or maybe he just got lucky with the RNG.

5234 DPS is the highest I've found for combat, with the spreadsheet, with optimal gear for myself on a 180s fight. Couple that with things like spoon said (Raid buffs not modeled like Hysteria and ToTT) ~5300 isn't very far off.

Also a major note:
Most of the high dps parses have very high overall raid dps. As a combat rogue, the quicker the fight, the better a combat rogue's dps will be as cooldown uptime will be much higher. Your dps can lack as combat simply from your raid not performing well and the fight taking too long. (Example: A simple change of my optimal spreadsheet of the time to 4 minutes instead of 3 minutes results in a drop to 5139 DPS)

I was looking at my cycles page of the spreadsheet and noticed something odd that I dont understand. In the Xe(CttC) and Xe/Yr (CttC) cycles it lists rupture and envenom dps but its telling me that to get the highest dps from those abilities I have to follow a wierd cycle.

For Xe/Yr the spreadsheet is saying X+4/Y+1 is a higher combined(adding rupture and envenom dps together) than X-4/Y-4(which comes in second). Heres the results:
X4/Y1 = 116.4(R)+416.2(E)= 532.8dps(total)
X4/Y4= 199.9(R)+281.6(E)=481.5dps(total)

and interestingly, Xe had a cycle that came in close
X+4= 526(E)

One important note is the envenom buff uptime on these cycles:
X4/Y1= 59%
X4/Y4= 40%
X4= 74%

Now I have two questions regarding this. First, am I reading the dps on these cycles correctly? Is there more to finding the right cycle than just adding together the dps of rupture and envenom? Second, since there isnt a very good model of the envenom buff yet, what should the general rule of thumb be in regards to it if I am reading these cycles correctly? In other words, is it better to run an Xe=4 cycle due to massively increased uptime of the envenom buff even though its 10 less dps than X+4/Y+1?

Uh... look at the "Total DPS" cell on the sheet. That's what it's for. Just adding up your finisher damage makes no sense whatsoever. That's why you're missing the blindingly obvious reason X4/Y1 is a lousy cycle: which is that wasting energy on a 1-point Rupture will drop your Mutilate damage through the floor.

I'm guessing there's something else wrong with your settings on the spreadsheet if you're seeing those results. When I set the x/y both to 4, rupture is doing about 60 more dps than envenom for me.


Either way, you shouldn't actually be using the exact cycle represented in Vulajin's spreadsheet. It is just a close approximation to model an assassination cycle.

Take a look at the cycle logic in the pocket guide to see what is recommended.