Cyberion

Just a quick thanks for your continued efforts and valuable time sink, always an excellent source for Theorycrafting.

Quick question and I may be completely blind but I am unable to find the area for Heroic Presence
Heroic Presence - Spell - World of Warcraft in the spreadsheet has this buff been included?

 

• Vulajin

Count that among "forget to include" type stuff, I raid Horde and don't usually have to worry about Draenei. Next version will have it.

Speaking of which, I'm going to go ahead and forgo further versions of the BC sheet and simply focus on Wrath from now on. The next version will be 0.2.0, and will feature the various bug fixes from the previous couple pages as well as all the changes that have been announced thus far. Depending on how long it takes me to complete this, stuff like the talent revamp may wait until 0.2.1, but 0.2.0 will have the buff/debuff changes, new Cut to the Chase, and a lot of cycle changes. For example, the energy pooling model may well be eliminated since Find Weakness is slated to be made passive and AToL will almost certainly be outclassed by new trinkets once we hit 80.

 

Graivewynd

This spreadsheet is awesome, but I have the Assassin's Alchemist Stone and it does not show up under the trinket menu. I realize that it is static and so could i just modify my AP to compensate for it?

 

Iliyan

Vulajin, or anyone else, do you have any information regarding the 4pt Darkmantle set bonus? 35 energy proc off any attack...

Whats the proc rate? Any CD? I remember that it used to proc quite a lot, and whenever it did, you would surely notice such a huge energy gain..

 

• Vulajin

Do I even want to know why you're asking about an obsolete set bonus from an obsolete set?

 

Iliyan

Well, It is not included in the spreadsheet, and It only requires 4parts of the Obsolete *epics*. I'm just trying to see if blizzard nerfed the proc chance related to leveling, like they did for Hand of Justice...

 

◊ Asgorath

Level 60 epics will still be terrible for leveling in Wrath of the Lich King.

 

• Vulajin

Version 0.2.0 of the Wrath beta spreadsheet is available via the link in the first post. Changes in this version:

- All buffs reorganized under the new non-stacking buff/debuff system.
- AP scaling added for Instant Poison and Deadly Poison.
- Five minute Bloodlust cooldown implemented.
- Talents rearranged and modified where necessary to reflect build 8905.
- Spreadsheet housekeeping -- removed numerous obsolete named cells.
- Removed Find Weakness uptime modeling (talent is now passive).
- Implemented Cut to the Chase cycles -- Xe/Yr CttC, and Xe CttC. More to come.
- Implemented Wrath ranks of Envenom and poisons, and Envenom's poison proc rate increase buff.

Murder Spree remains unimplemented, as does Honor Among Thieves, but just about everything else should be in. Note that the version of poisons implemented in this sheet does not reflect the bug on beta where speccing into Improved Poisons causes your poisons to proc nearly 100% of the time. Regardless of that bug, the poison DPS ends up being completely off the charts.

The template gear has been shifted to a "best-in-Sunwell" setup to try to reflect what stats we might have in dungeon blues preparing to head into Naxxramas. I don't know if this is accurate at all, but whatever. The build is Mutilate, 51/13/7, using 5e with CttC (that is, Envenom spam). The talents selected provided the highest DPS in my brief testing, though I'm sure I might have missed some possible combination. Go nuts, see if you can figure out something better, or if you can make Xe/Yr deal more DPS than Xe.

Also, an important note about CttC cycles: the Slice uptime of the cycle MUST BE 100% or else the cycle is not sustainable. This is slightly different from normal cycles, where Slice uptime less than 100% might mean that it drops briefly before you refresh it. With a CttC cycle, you CANNOT refresh Slice once it has dropped, and my model is not robust enough to account for having to recast Slice instead of Eviscerate/Envenom. If your Slice uptime is less than 100% with a CttC cycle, it means Slice will eventually drop and neuter your DPS for an entire cycle.

 

• Aldriana

I was looking a this the other day, and what I concluded is that for the "set" slots, the Sunwell options are generally a bit better than the best known level 80 blues, particularly if you resocket them with level 80 gems; but for the rest of the slots (rings, amulet, cloak, weapons) there are generally better options amongst level 80 blues.

Now, we probably don't know about all the level 80 blues yet, and I was using a fairly simplified model of stat weightings, to do comparisons, but, nevertheless: I would guess that Sunwell gear will be sufficient to start 10-man raiding with in most cases; however, most of it will get replaced by loot from the first 10-man dungeon.

 

Professor Hurt

I noticed a significant DPS increase when switching to fast daggers (poison procs?). Two fast daggers ftw?

 

saedo

I doubt the damage coefficients have been finalized. They're just getting working mechanics/talents in.

 

• Aldriana

I'm sure there's plenty of tuning to be done yet, but it is worth noting that the massively increased damage from poison is going to favor fast weapons more than slow; fast weapons were always better for poison, and slow weapons for instant attacks; since instant attacks were 5x as much of your damage, they proved to be better in most cases. But with poison now being a very significant source of damage... I can see fast weapons being somewhat more viable. How viable, of course, depends on the final tuning.

 

• Vulajin

I think we can safely say, just from a cursory glance at the sheet, that poisons are way way out of whack. I get the idea that Blizzard wants them to be a non-insignificant portion of our total damage (other stuff that was previously essentially "spare change," like finishers, got buffed as well)...but they've definitely miscalculated here. I'd bet we can expect poisons to comprise around 10-15% of our actual damage output in Wrath.

 

hannigaholic

Just a quick heads up - setting the fight duration to zero (for infinite length) in 0.2.0 LK results in all the dps figures displaying "#NAME?", as well as many fields in the DPS tab.

 

Amerilina

I was bored at work today so I entered the Naxx 10 man epics into the spreadsheet. Keeping the same Mutilate Build and buffs and using all the Naxx 10 man gear except 1 ring (Stromrage Signet) and the same default trinkets. The Sheet showed DPS going up by 240. The unbuffed totals are kinda interesting:

Agi: 997
AP: 3094
ArP: 707
Crit: 297
Hit: 236
Exp: 213
Haste: 363

When there was 2 or more items for a slot i took the Highest DPS one.

Having almost 3100 AP from the 10 man gear is pretty interesting. I am going to try to Hack in the enchants and Gems to get a better picture of what Rogues will be at Stat wise at the end of 10 man Naxx

 

• Vulajin

Thanks for the various bug reports, I'll fix those in 0.2.1 and release that tomorrow.

 

Amerilina

So, I played with the spreadsheet some more injecting numbers into it to get an idea of stat weighting. What I found was hit was the most valuable stat till you reach the Spell hit cap for mutilate(Used Default Build). After you reach the Spell hit cap AP and Agi seem to because more valuable. I nerfed the poison damage to see how that would effect Hit. I adjusted IP to get 5% of AP and DP to get 2% of AP and got the same results.

 

• Vulajin

Version 0.2.1 LK is available via the download link in the first post. Changes:

- Melee crit and all-crit raid buffs are now properly applied rather than divided by 100 (e.g. 3% --> 0.03%).
- Cleaned up lingering cell name inconsistency causing #NAME error when duration = 0.
- Opportunity now provides 10% effect per talent point rather than 4%.

Sorry for the delay in getting this out.

 

Sebek

Question on BC stuff (yea I know it's almost over)

My guild is currently on twins, and we also have enough sunmotes to toss around so I have the choice between the Band of Ruinous Delight and the Hard Khorium Band. The spreadsheets all seem to suggest the twins ring is better, but when I'm trying to add up what I get by taking the Ruinous band over the JC Band this is what I get:

Lose 12 stam
Gain .70% crit
Lose 22 AP
Gain 161 Armor ignore
Lose 1.78% haste

Are the crit and armor ignore at this level of gear really that more highly valued than haste and ap to justify this or is there something wrong in the sheets?

<edit> I get the gain loss values by the difference of what I'd gain vs. lose by replacing the badge ring that I'm currently wearing.

 

• Aldriana

The answer depends heavily on exactly what gear you're currently wearing, and what debuffs are on the boss. You can make perfectly reasonable endgame gear selections where each is optimal. I personally prefer the Twins ring, but, again, both are viable options.

Short answer: trust the spreadsheets. Pick your favorite sheet, enter your buffs, and go with it. Were I you I might doublecheck against one of the more established spreadsheets, as, while this is a great sheet and I'm sure Vulajin has done a fine job with it, it hasn't had quite as much time to get abused by the community and thus may contain small bugs that have had a chance to get flushed out in the more established sheets.

 

koaschten

anecdote ahead:
If you can afford getting the jc ring, by all means get it because of a single reason... loot is random.

 

ShadowEric

I just got in the Beta so I downloaded the LK spreadsheet. I was looking at the Mutilate build you used and something doesn't add up. Mutilate requires 1 point in Overkill, which you have listed at 0. The total for the Assassination tree is then 52, not 51.

Or did I miss something really obvious ?

 

• Vulajin

I'm probably just dumb and forgot that little caveat when setting up the default build. Will fix in 0.2.2.

 

Grunge

With 3.0 coming to PTR, is there any chance we get a level 70 version with updated talents and such?
Although I'm guessing it depends if we get poison scaling and other talent changes (extra ap modifers, etc) in 3.0.

Anyway, keep up the great work! :>


P.S. Fang of Kalecgos is currently a better offhand than Shiv. (I'm guessing due to out of whack poisons?).

Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.

 

• Vulajin

Hm. I suppose it's possible to take the current version of the sheet and re-hack it to have level 70 ranks of abilities and such. That'll be 0.4.0 of the BC sheet, I guess. Expect that soon after the patch hits the PTR, I'd say.